From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3022: 23.0.92; triangle images in Customize buffers are just plain bad Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:09:50 -0700 Message-ID: <83CEEFF8DC7149C1A89D91B6DD5BF312@us.oracle.com> References: <877hub38qf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257006456 18626 80.91.229.12 (31 Oct 2009 16:27:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:27:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 31 17:27:29 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N4GnY-00012r-Ez for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:27:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57280 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N4GnX-0004Vf-W4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N4GnT-0004UK-60 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N4GnN-0004SD-PL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55286 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N4GnN-0004S8-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:56744) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N4GnN-0008On-17 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9VGREup031865; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:27:15 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n9VGK6h1031071; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:20:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:20:06 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:20:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3022 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 3022-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3022.125700544730330 (code B ref 3022); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:20:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3022) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 31 Oct 2009 16:10:47 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9VGAj2A030326 for <3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:10:46 -0700 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n9VGCDtb009894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:12:15 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n9VFPAS6029124; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:10:38 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 20744359961257005392; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:09:52 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.80.25) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:09:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcpaO3/3TKysjJETQRSjCW0l8w+ruAACE1Kw In-Reply-To: <877hub38qf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4AEC617C.0158:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:27:22 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:32311 Archived-At: > > While the idea behind the triangles (arrows) in Customize is good > > (actually, I believe it was I who suggested it), the > > current effect is quite bad. > > > > If the value is shown, then the triangle points downward. Typically, > > that symbol means that clicking it will display something additional > > below the symbol. Instead, the value disappears. > > > > If the value is not shown, the the symbol is a right-pointing > > triangle. That's OK in this case, since it suggests that clicking it > > will display something to the right, and the value is to the right. > > > > However, for the symbol that replaces `More', a right-pointing > > triangle is inappropriate, since the text is not displayed to its > > right, but below it. > > This is a very standard user interface idiom, known as "disclosure > triangles". Calling it by name and "very standard" doesn't improve anything. It was I who suggested the idea in the first place. The idea is fine, as I said already. "The current _effect_ is bad." That's the point: it is simply not done right. The result is confusion and easily missing information. See above for details. Doors on buildings (known as "doors") are a very standard architecture idiom. But some doors are poorly designed.