From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:05:54 +0300 Message-ID: <838w5dgln1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279184892 27092 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2010 09:08:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 15 11:08:10 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKQK-00006k-0I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:08:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45916 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZKQJ-0003E4-44 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:08:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46086 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZKQ9-0003Dy-6Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:08:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKQ5-0006q1-2B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:07:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:39869) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKQ4-0006po-S2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:07:53 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L5L00J00B8N0A00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:07:51 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.120.144]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L5L00KPUDD2OW00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:07:51 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127338 Archived-At: > From: Tom > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:51:59 +0000 (UTC) > > Miles Bader gnu.org> writes: > > > > > Tom gmail.com> writes: > > > That's why CUA-style editing should be made the consistent default, so Emacs > > > works like all other modern application on KDE/Gnome/Windows, etc. and the > > > current behavior should be provided as a compatibility mode for those who > > > are accustomed to the old behavior. > > > > Isn't going to happen. > > > > Obviously not. And that's why Emacs won't be able attractive to > most new users, because more popular IDEs offer features which > people nowadays consider basic (excellent refactoring support, > etc.) and implementing these features requires significant > development and testing resources which Emacs doesn't have. How on earth are those two related?? CUA Mode already exists and need just be enabled; the IDE features need at best a lot of work, if not implementation from ground up. Enabling CUA by default modifies the most basic keybindings; adding IDE features changes nothing until the user actually activates the IDE. Etc., etc. > I guess it will be the job of a new generation of Emacs > developers Where are they? All I see is the same old arguments about "to CUA or not to CUA", and laments about missing refactoring support. Will someone please put their money where their mouth is, and DO something?