From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#19468: 25.0.50; UI inconveniences with M-. Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:41:37 +0300 Message-ID: <838udbueku.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83zja6b3tc.fsf@gnu.org> <54A24079.4020902@yandex.ru> <54A2FF47.6010207@yandex.ru> <54A86135.7080004@yandex.ru> <54A90002.7080009@gmx.at> <54A9C3FB.7000602@yandex.ru> <54AA3881.3080304@gmx.at> <54ABBB47.7010603@yandex.ru> <837fszx7iy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3r5wqwv.fsf@gnu.org> <83k2wxwexb.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv7kwbow.fsf@gnu.org> <553FF4EF.4080003@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430322205 21698 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2015 15:43:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:43:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 19468@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 17:43:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8n-0004nU-2U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:43:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39738 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8m-0001KE-Ik for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:43:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42627) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8g-0001EQ-Pz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:43:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8d-0003vw-1n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:43:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:46539) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8c-0003vk-VD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU8c-00088Y-Fp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:43:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19468 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 19468-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19468.143032214031226 (code B ref 19468); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:43:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 19468) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2015 15:42:20 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56514 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU7s-00087V-BL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:42:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:55031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YnU7m-00087C-SO for 19468@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NNK00E00RGQ6Y00@mtaout29.012.net.il> for 19468@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:40:26 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NNK00EEZRJE4V00@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:40:26 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <553FF4EF.4080003@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102223 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 00:00:31 +0300 > From: Dmitry Gutov > CC: 19468@debbugs.gnu.org > > No: there's only one definition of `find-tag' so Elisp's xref backend > just returns that one and that's it. > > There's more than one matching definition, see below. > > If you want "matching" definitions, use xref-find-apropos. That's a UI inconvenience, IMO. I already explained why: it requires me to know up front whether the symbol name I'm about to type is precise or not. > But that's largely immaterial: this bug report is not about the > back-end, it's about the UI. The UI should be independent of the > back-end, otherwise the users will be confused when they switch > between languages. > > The UI can only work with that a backend returns to it. A non-ideal implementation can result in non-ideal behavior in the end. We should not have "non-ideal" implementation that return radically different results. Each query by default should yield approximately the same result. If the differences are small, or differ only in their order, that's OK. But having one list of results be 2 orders of magnitude larger than another is something to avoid at all costs. > (If it turns out that some back-ends need to be > augmented so that they allow the front-end to present similar UI for > the same query, then those back-ends should be enhanced.) > > Sure. I'd be happy to leave that to someone else, but there doesn't seem to be someone actively maintaining it. That kind of thing happens every day in Emacs development, IME. There's no way around it, if you care about some component, and another one gets in the way, you need to fix that other component. > > To say > > nothing of the fact that this doesn't scale to any language except > > ELisp. > > Yes, the Elisp backend doesn't scale to other languages. I wasn't talking about the elis backend, I was talking about the design principles. > (One of my worst annoyances is to type a > C-h command and be presented with "[No match]", because some package > is not loaded or some function is not available in the Emacs > configuration I happen to be using.) > > It's the cost of doing business, as far as I'm concerned. No, it's a bug to be fixed. > You can't use tags for non-core Elisp code anyway, such as anything in your init directory (installed packages, etc), and any Elisp files installed separately by the operating system's distribution. Of course I can use TAGS: I just need to load those additional tags tables. > Actually, if you're not working on a Git checkout, I don't think you can use the tags even for the Elisp code that's part of Emacs. Why not? I do it all the time, and tried again just now: it works.