From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 22:22:09 +0300 Message-ID: <838sikadum.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83a730ah5y.fsf@gnu.org> <5fce7517-9475-81d2-25be-41d5c5050de7@yandex.ru> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="64449"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ndame@protonmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 21:23:49 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jS3vR-000Gfv-EG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:23:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49912 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS3vQ-0002sd-4y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:23:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53210) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS3u5-0007pn-Ay for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:22:25 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jS3u4-0005kY-03; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:22:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2655 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jS3u3-0001NF-2n; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:22:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5fce7517-9475-81d2-25be-41d5c5050de7@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:40:55 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247724 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:40:55 +0300 > > > how to enter and use Org, Magit, Helm, and other similar packages. I > > challenge you to even write about these features without mentioning > > "buffer", "window", "mode line", and other basics of the Emacs UI. > > All of these can be introduced much quicker than a 12-page document. Maybe it can, maybe it can't. I encourage you (or someone else) to show such a variant of the introductory text, then we'd have something to talk about, including comparing it with what we have now. > And at least for Magit and Helm, it's perfectly possible to describe > their selling points without first introducing what "buffers" and "mode > line" are. Maybe even windows. Once again, "selling" is a different document. Describing how to use these feature without the basics could work for those who already know the basics, but not for those who don't. Maybe you assume that people who read the tutorial already know the basics.