From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Sun, 03 May 2020 17:13:11 +0300 Message-ID: <838si9qf7s.fsf@gnu.org> References: <831ro2tqqx.fsf@gnu.org> <4a1fd3f4-df92-c756-9874-4d07b54148ac@yandex.ru> <83v9lesapw.fsf@gnu.org> <83pnbms9m8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a72qs4z2.fsf@gnu.org> <83wo5uqoh5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="50842"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philippe Vaucher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 03 16:14:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVFNn-000D4y-4W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 16:14:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47390 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVFNm-0002ov-4J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:14:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35014) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVFN4-0001XB-G3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:13:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53284) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVFN3-0005Gh-PC; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:13:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3877 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jVFMu-0007db-Tc; Sun, 03 May 2020 10:13:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Philippe Vaucher on Sat, 2 May 2020 21:54:42 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248684 Archived-At: > From: Philippe Vaucher > Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:54:42 +0200 > Cc: João Távora , > Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , > Richard Stallman , Dmitry Gutov > > Maybe you are just unfamiliar with the "tutorial" way of learning things. I am familiar with tutorials. They have their limits: you can only learn this much by following a tutorial. The ELisp manual is not a tutorial, it is (or at least is supposed to be) a complete and comprehensive reference manual to the Emacs Lisp language and core facilities. > For quite a lot of people, this page http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/elisp_string_functions.html is much simpler > to use & learn from than this page > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Strings-and-Characters.html > > It does not mean that the later page is bad, it is actually more complete, better documented, already grouped > in topics... and yet, a lot of people prefer the first page... straight to the point, simple examples. > > Please tell me if you are able to understand this, if you cannot I'll try to explain further. I understand this very well, I'm just astonished to hear that this is all the documentation you and some others want to see or have. It's completely against all I have ever learned and practiced in the way of teaching people various skills and topics (and I did that more than once or twice). Emacs has a wealth of documentation at your fingertips, arranged, indexed, and enriched with a large collection of commands designed to make our self-documenting editor easy to study. To give up all of this and insist on having instead a flat list of APIs that match some textual pattern is something that comes as a shock to me.