From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62320: 30.0.50; Thoughts about (info "(emacs) Bugs") Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 18:52:57 +0300 Message-ID: <838rff7dwm.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sfdyoext.fsf@web.de> <83bkkm6v8n.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkklcypz.fsf@web.de> <83wn374mmn.fsf@gnu.org> <87zg7vwpp4.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11567"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 62320@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 29 17:53:16 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6u-0002kd-KY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:53:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6i-0007Ji-Cv; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:53:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6h-0007JW-4J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:53:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6g-0003uI-MR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6g-0004L6-At for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62320 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62320-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62320.168010517716666 (code B ref 62320); Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62320) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Mar 2023 15:52:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54777 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6a-0004Kk-Qc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:52:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56622) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6Y-0004KX-SR for 62320@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:52:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6T-0003sJ-8o; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:52:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FNpMX8YRdbYmv4DgcQ/m3THKckFuH6BwlRvxffcBtxk=; b=OtjKcDaFGdae OfdMry5edxYwxZXaqhpuIvmxZhVRYoZD4HgOrQUWKBZXy7gWPXXq4bDISa3uqJA3TUFKWkfz/iJx0 fMN36kksHBOcGZVnnKp/RrvUolxDE+DXSMkKio9DHC8daGL3cPxwHSZ9HmMlVdCc7TwoAeBu31Kvg ggQ9jLFqszf5KZtmHLd4UVwRc2LyXQkLoRTmBco/caAEjkgmpPNgTMoh01XKmG34tGmdg0WT0g53g i0Ga7PYx5LAa7DU/Wm6ht8IFnKJph4vuhLxba2a6YtPInl75+mVRH9qXgc1T+Jy4Uhaazsyx40toX 31ugWLRj0hTasIVCR1CMSw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1phY6R-0007r5-Rw; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:52:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zg7vwpp4.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:19:03 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:258857 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: 62320@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:19:03 +0200 > > I've read the whole chapter again and I found nothing that I could > complain about. You also have worked in all my suggestions - apart from > the "if you know how please load relevant Elisp source files before > capturing an Elisp backtrace" one - intentionally? Maybe not. Can you tell to which part of the text this was related? > Apart from that everything looks good, but I'm not able to have an > opinion about some things (like the document structure). I've at least explained why the structure is as it is: it follows some logic, which is now explicitly described, I hope. > I hope that the requirement to read the chapter carefully and follow all > the rules does not scare people too much (my fear is that the competent > people are more likely to be scared than the incompetent but > self-competent). Admittedly, the text is very detailed. I've removed what I thought was outdated and/or unneeded, but it is still too long. However, what is there now is important, so all we can do is to have summaries for the impatient and order the stuff according to decreasing importance. If you can suggest some improvements in that direction, please do. > Dunno if we could try even more to encourage people > without tempting others to spread nonsense. Maybe we could add a > sentence like "If it is sure that you have found a bug, of course we > want to hear about it even if you are not able to follow all of the > advices strictly for some reason. Still, please do your best to take > them into account so that our developers are not required to spend more > time than necessary to understand your report." I'll take another look and see if there's a good place to say something like that.