From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Basic Bazaar guide for Emacs hackers. Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:03:19 +0200 Message-ID: <837ht6ms94.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87skbzblp5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87y6log42q.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y6lo8zgi.fsf@telefonica.net> <87638sy5ab.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tywc8u7t.fsf@telefonica.net> <87k4x76wpp.fsf@telefonica.net> <8e0e71cb0911302252v6a7c9f80j532308eb0a842816@mail.gmail.com> <4B14D4FC.8070509@gnu.org> <8e0e71cb0912010726k56f90cbbm8d96b5e0dd3a6b6f@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259694462 23137 80.91.229.12 (1 Dec 2009 19:07:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 01 20:07:12 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NFY3x-0007vr-UD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:07:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49200 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NFY3w-000390-Ha for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:07:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NFY3o-00036n-FL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:06:52 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NFY3j-00034M-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:06:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39294 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NFY3j-00034H-39 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:06:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:55234) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NFY3h-0004Th-VH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:06:46 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KTZ00400M566200@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:05:18 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.213.252]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KTZ00JS9MCTERL0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:05:18 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <8e0e71cb0912010726k56f90cbbm8d96b5e0dd3a6b6f@mail.gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:118043 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:26:02 -0500 > From: Karl Fogel > Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= , rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > While the distributed workflow might be a better approach for people > > starting with a clean slate, existing developers (and users who track CVS) > > do not necessarily have the time to invest in learning a new workflow > > immediately, and are looking for minimum disruption immediately after the > > switch from CVS to bzr. So there is definite value in an additional document > > describing a quick and painless transition from CVS, and probably a > > migration path to the distributed workflow for when the developer has time > > to adjust their habits. > > Absolutely. We already have the additional document, and it is > prominently linked to, so no problems there. So, as long as we all think that the "Quick Start" page will be useful to some, here are a comment about it: The setup and workflow described by this page is advertised (by its parent "Bzr For Emacs Devs") as ``CVS-like''. But this isn't really accurate, is it? The command shown to checkout the trunk is this: bzr checkout URL_TO_UPSTREAM_TRUNK trunk However, IIUC, the slightly modified checkout command bzr checkout --lightweight URL_TO_UPSTREAM_TRUNK trunk is a closer equivalent of the CVS checkout, because it only checks out the working tree without creating a full local copy of history. The history is only needed if one wants to commit locally. People who don't plan on using local commits don't need to pay the extra price of larger disk storage and probably also some additional time it takes to do a heavyweight checkout. OTOH, if we think that a heavyweight checkout is the recommended way, then we should at least mention its main benefit -- the local commit. Currently, the page only hints on that, but stops short of showing the commands to use this potential: You have in your disk a copy of the VC history of the trunk branch since the last bzr update. Hence, Bazaar does not need to contact a server upstream for displaying logs, reverting edited files, annotating, etc. This is useful for working off-line. Bazaar makes possible to commit changes off-line to your local history and send them upstream in one batch. Personally, I would do both: tell about --lightweight as the equivalent of CVS, and also tell about the local commits available with the heavyweight checkouts. But that's me.