From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:34:49 +0300 Message-ID: <837fqtfa46.fsf@gnu.org> References: <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <87r3p9fxm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k2v0fiji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> <87fv5kfrfa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83twtzhi9g.fsf@gnu.org> <877fqvfvby.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83fv5jh8ls.fsf@gnu.org> <874mlzf71d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83d20mh3s2.fsf@gnu.org> <87d20mxkmy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435156518 32342 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2015 14:35:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 14:35:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 24 16:35:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7llg-0006lf-7o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 16:35:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51028 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7llf-0007pV-Gm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34596) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7llZ-0007lt-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:35:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7llV-0002MV-57 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:35:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:41465) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7llU-0002L8-TQ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 10:35:01 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NQG00K00DOWF700@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:34:59 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NQG00KV2DUA9R40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 17:34:59 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87d20mxkmy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187469 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: acm@muc.de, > eggert@cs.ucla.edu, > rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 04:57:57 +0900 > > > My point is that we should make these steps carefully, one step at > > a time, and provide fallbacks and ways to switch this off where > > possible on every step. > > Once again, your phrasing excludes me. This is *our* point. > > > Which is what we've been doing. You seem to be advocating to charge > > ahead and never look back, > > Not at all. Surely you have noticed how often I've used the word > "experiment"! It was I who risked insulting Paul by asking for an > explicit statement that the change would be backed out on request. I > could go on. If you haven't noticed that, maybe you should try > harder. Then I guess we are in violent agreement (again).