From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:44:13 +0200 Message-ID: <837fl2qzs2.fsf@gnu.org> References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448700293 31423 80.91.229.3 (28 Nov 2015 08:44:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 08:44:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 28 09:44:38 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a2b7W-00059e-6s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:44:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60011 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2b7Z-0004Q5-Ce for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 03:44:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36443) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2b7N-0004Pn-PK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 03:44:30 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2b7K-0004FV-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 03:44:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:45338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2b7K-0004FG-BS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 03:44:26 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NYI00L00O4ABB00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:44:25 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NYI00L4SOA04D60@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:44:25 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195443 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 21:04:54 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This has been discussed somewhat, but I don't think there was > any actual proposal to change the behavior. So here goes. > > Does it still make sense to make search and replacement > use lax matching, i.e., fold stuff, by default? I will repeat up front what I've already said numerous time in other similar discussions: arguing about defaults in Emacs is largely a waste of time. It usually fails to produce any real effect except tremendous loss of time and energy. In all the years I've been involved in Emacs development, I remember only one case of such a discussion that ended up in real changes: the changes in default colors of faces in Emacs 21. But that was when the development team was very small and everyone on it had the same perspective. (It still took a lot of time and argument.) Given the ease with which you can change those defaults, the defaults are almost irrelevant. They are only significant to newcomers. However, none of those who participate in such arguments is a newcomer, so the only people for whom this matters are not here to voice their opinions. That said... > I don't think it does. I think that users, especially > new users, would be less confused if Emacs defaulted to > literal searching - no whitespace, case, "character", > or other folding by default. Most (if not all) other programs out there do fold by default, both the letter-case and the equivalent characters. So I don't think you are right about newbie expectations. Emacs follows (or rather precedes, I think) what other similar programs do, so its defaults should be more consistent with user expectations than a literal search.