From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Richard Copley <rcopley@gmail.com>
Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Image transformations
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 17:43:40 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <837e9oxm5f.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPM58ohs11vEJJAMbJ9b6-3toc1bbpLWKqbN6D1FN7i+kP0ufw@mail.gmail.com> (message from Richard Copley on Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:49:52 +0100)
> From: Richard Copley <rcopley@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:49:52 +0100
> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, Emacs Development <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
> http://winapi.freetechsecrets.com/win32
>
> According to it, GM_ADVANCED is not supported on Windows 9X.
>
> Is it important to support such advanced features there?
I'd like to support there what can be supported. Which means
everything except rotations.
> That might work, and doesn't really
> contradict what I say above, but we should first make sure that all
> the toolkits we support interpret the matrix the same.
>
> They don't, but the differences are small platform-specific fixups
> (possibly inverting and/or transposing the matrix, as well as
> converting the values to the appropriate types). The mathematical
> fundamentals are the same for all the platforms.
The mathematical fundamentals are the same, but if we interpret the
Lisp-level matrix as only some platforms do, Lisp programmers whose
background is from the rest of the platforms will likely become
confused and will make mistakes.
IOW, I consider complex platform-specific interfaces generally
unsuitable for being exposed on the Lisp level.
> > Thirdly, the homogeneous matrix is compact and uniform, and makes
> > it easy to compose and invert (undo) transformations.
>
> So are/do the attributes.
>
> I think you're underestimating the difficulty of that part. Here's a
> concrete example. Suppose the user wants to apply two
> transformations,
>
> 1. Stretch by factor 2 in the x direction, then rotate clockwise by
> 45 degrees, then translate to the right by 100 pixels.
>
> 2. Stretch by factor 0.5 in the x direction, then rotate clockwise
> by 90 degrees, then translate left by 100 pixels.
>
> Calculating the resulting matrix might be a little tricky to get
> right, but with some experimentation you'll get there. Calculating
> the resulting shear, rotation, scale and translation is much more
> difficult to conceptualize.
I don't see why. We have :width and :height for stretching in a
single direction, and :scale for stretching in both. Translation is
impossible anyway, because we can only place images by adjusting
buffer contents and using various layout features like :align-to.
> Which representation is more compact is
> arguable: for example, the matrix representation of a rotation is much
> more wasteful than just a single angle of rotation parameter.
>
> I didn't say "more compact".
You said "compact and uniform".
> But I think this is a tangent, because my proposal doesn't preclude
> providing a matrix-based API in the future.
>
> It will make it difficult to preserve backward compatibility. Constructing
> the :crop, :rotate, etc., from the matrix, is hard.
I don't see why someone will need to deconstruct a matrix, so I don't
think this problem should bother us.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-06-14 14:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-06-11 5:10 Image transformations Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-11 20:02 ` Alan Third
2019-06-12 15:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-12 22:07 ` Alan Third
2019-06-12 22:15 ` Alan Third
2019-06-13 4:16 ` Alp Aker
2019-06-13 5:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 9:19 ` Alp Aker
2019-06-13 13:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 15:57 ` Alp Aker
2019-06-13 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 19:00 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-13 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-14 10:45 ` Alp Aker
2019-06-14 10:55 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-14 11:45 ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2019-06-14 11:59 ` Alp Aker
2019-06-13 16:12 ` Alan Third
2019-06-13 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 19:35 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-13 5:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 16:58 ` Alan Third
2019-06-13 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 19:27 ` Alan Third
2019-06-13 19:39 ` Alan Third
2019-06-13 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-13 22:26 ` Alan Third
2019-06-14 7:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-14 9:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-14 10:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-14 11:21 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-14 12:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-14 12:49 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-14 14:16 ` Yuri Khan
2019-06-14 14:43 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2019-06-14 15:55 ` Richard Copley
2019-06-15 11:00 ` Alan Third
2019-06-15 11:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-15 10:42 ` Alan Third
2019-06-15 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-16 15:22 ` Alan Third
2019-06-16 16:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-17 21:13 ` Alan Third
2019-06-19 17:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-24 17:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-24 19:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-25 2:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-25 3:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-25 4:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-25 14:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-25 15:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-26 0:28 ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2019-06-26 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-27 3:37 ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2019-06-27 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-25 18:33 ` Alan Third
2019-06-25 18:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-27 13:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-28 18:36 ` Alan Third
2019-06-28 19:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-29 11:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-29 19:51 ` Alan Third
2019-06-29 19:49 ` Alan Third
2019-06-29 19:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-06-30 14:38 ` Alan Third
2019-06-30 15:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-25 19:40 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 6:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-26 6:46 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 8:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-26 8:23 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 8:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-26 8:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 9:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-07-26 10:23 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-07-26 14:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-07-26 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-29 21:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-30 15:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-30 19:10 ` Alan Third
2019-07-01 14:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-18 11:01 ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-06-13 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
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