From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 11:53:39 +0300 Message-ID: <837devdcz0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> <8335pmgnjy.fsf@gnu.org> <604da2cb10ac61f2b8b89a02c89056be@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <83a6jtff87.fsf@gnu.org> <5ac7a31cf2959c31c262a3377c736a5a@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <83ilygew7p.fsf@gnu.org> <83fstjdiwl.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="366"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 10:54:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWamr-000ARf-AQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 10:54:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33680 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWamp-0006kP-O0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 04:54:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54278) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWamK-00065g-TA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 04:53:56 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47900) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWamJ-0003bC-UF; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 04:53:55 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4884 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWamJ-0001xp-FE; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 04:53:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Phil Sainty on Sat, 02 Oct 2021 20:44:55 +1300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276056 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 20:44:55 +1300 > From: Phil Sainty > Cc: acm@muc.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On 2021-10-02 19:45, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > There's a huge difference between breaking literal searches for > > symbols by text-searching tools, and breaking basic Emacs commands > > because the name the user sees and types is not known to Emacs. > > But shorthands does *both* of those things. > > The name the user sees is "s-foo". > > The name known to Emacs is "string-library-foo" (or whatever). > > The user types "C-h o s-foo RET" and Emacs says "no match". If this is correct (I didn't try), please report it as a bug. The difference is that this bug can be solved, because Lisp knows about the shorthand, whereas display-time features cannot be fixed as easily. > I'm genuinely confused that you're disapproving of a feature that > people must opt into, on the basis of a problem which already happens > with the approved feature that people can't opt out of. Existing problems in approved features are bugs that need to be solved. They are not reasons for removing the feature. I explained the reasons for disapproving renaming that is limited to display; if you still disagree, let's agree to disagree.