From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Disambiguate modeline character for UTF-8? Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2023 12:20:01 +0300 Message-ID: <837crdiegu.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wo1p73d2.fsf@gnu.org> <6ccde339-2bf1-3a4d-61bb-734046bf02d5@cs.ucla.edu> <83r1rx6vgv.fsf@gnu.org> <83lfi56te9.fsf@gnu.org> <83cz16k2kx.fsf@gnu.org> <833522jwvr.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmzdioy4.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36799"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Ulrich Mueller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 06 11:20:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qHLAZ-0009KB-1y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2023 11:20:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHL9r-0003eM-7U; Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:20:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHL9p-0003e0-N6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:20:13 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHL9m-00080q-LX; Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:20:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=a6am6pYshXGwxZrJIjrtn03iwkwd5zPegKwAeyvBgP4=; b=cZGDOZmCUWvP Wlhwhq2RVoLoeWYae6h2FyR0pTOiAiKlqilz3zbmbHM1tgTZNCdMIZI+wp+9h5Ib6xzvrv1P68Fyw 3Zz4PSOZNI//UCqRmUdnyM0cdys7HCrMvgnMXq0JbVaIZTmJFiYIGW05afnnN0S+uj+kDW+ngtnh2 5kSNQPiP+x751TXgSjauzXy9aNCvlEwtPyvnqHUivO3KZxBB4DzBIiFJq6/yUlPxB/hihPbzJ2hiQ riY78oeK+TFsrTjfUngR8G1N0TgKXV0I9x4TFaljc5j1h14hf1rrXQoGPbNwTQo+pbNUS8T89hmVL HndOKmL0yrPqCNXDvRP8ow==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHL9d-0006Jl-9l; Thu, 06 Jul 2023 05:20:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Ulrich Mueller on Thu, 06 Jul 2023 10:47:53 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307490 Archived-At: > From: Ulrich Mueller > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2023 10:47:53 +0200 > > >>>>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> All I'm asking for is a unique indicator for UTF-8. Wouldn't this be > >> justified for the most common encoding (or maybe it's second after > >> ASCII)? > > > Sorry, I'm not interested in such radical changes. UTF-8 is an > > important encoding, but that doesn't justify what you propose. In the > > absolute majority of cases, "U" already means UTF-8 and nothing else, > > so the issue is marginal at best, and making such significant > > incompatible changes in user-facing displays is unjustified from my > > POV. > > Sorry, but in what world does this qualify as a "radical change"? In this one. People have been staring at "U" (and "UUU" on TTY frames) since Emacs 23.1 was released. If someone cares about those characters so much so that they want them changed, please think about others who care about them and would be surprised and probably worried by suddenly seeing a different character. (If the assumption is that people don't care about these indications, then this whole discussion is moot to begin with.) > I propose changing UTF-16 and UTF-7 from uppercase "U" to lowercase "u", > and koi8 to some other character like "K". Yes, I understand the proposal.