From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3516: 23.0.94; function key names in Info Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:15:27 +0300 Message-ID: <8362n7fmj4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <838vs3fq0t.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310490882 23393 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2011 17:14:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:14:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 3516@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 19:14:37 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QggXd-0000hP-Gg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:14:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43383 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QggXb-0004n5-Kt for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:59401) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QggXA-0004lm-HL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QggX5-00080u-Gi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:48550) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QggX5-00080j-6G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QggX4-0007y9-92; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 3516 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 3516-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B3516.131049081530590 (code B ref 3516); Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:14:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3516) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2011 17:13:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QggWc-0007xK-MB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:13:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QggWZ-0007x7-DR for 3516@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:13:32 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LO800100D2EQ700@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 3516@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:13:24 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.156.102]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LO8001ZGD6ANB20@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:13:24 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:14:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:48751 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: <3516@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:38:24 -0700 > > > "@key{F1}" in Texinfo produces "" in Info, > > without the single quotes. In the printed output it produces > > something resembling a keyboard key with a label on it. Taking these > > in quotes would be wrong, e.g. because then "@kbd{C-x @key{RET}}" > > would produce `C-x `'' with nested quotes which looks ugly. > > What you describe is an implementation problem (Texinfo, Info). Actually, no: _you_ are talking about implementation. There are no quotes in the manual sources here, there are 2 different markups: @kbd and @key. They are different because they express two different entities: characters typed by the user on the keyboard as opposed to a single special key named by its label. The quotes in one of the cases are the Info way of _implementing_ the @kbd markup. Note that the printed manual doesn't have these quotes, because there @kbd produces slanted typeface that stands out without any need to quote it. Likewise with the other formats supported by the Texinfo package. Only the Info and the plain text formats use quotes -- it's their _implementation_ of the @kbd markup. > What I describe is from a user point of view: the resulting appearance in the > Info manual. There's nothing wrong with the appearance. > The point is that `' should be used. According to you. According to 25-year long practice of writing GNU manuals, practice that is codified in the Texinfo manual (which is a de-facto standard for writing GNU documentation), @key{RET} should be used, and in Info it produces without quotes. If you want to request a change in the _implementation_ of @key in the Info format, the place to request that is in the Texinfo mailing list, not here. > The entire key sequence - whatever that key sequence is, should be in quotes, > consistently, to indicate a key sequence. `C-x ' and `' both > correspond to the same convention: put the sequence of keys in quotes. is not a key sequence, it's a single key named by its label. Again, the distinction between @kbd and @key is very basic. If you disagree with it, at least accept that this is widely used practice in GNU documentation and is explicitly described in the Texinfo manual. IOW, this is how the GNU project documents its software, whether you like it or not. And no amount of bugs filed against Emacs will be able to change that.