From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:50:04 +0300 Message-ID: <8362lxtfeb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4E48D309.6050503@acdlabs.ru> <83hb5jujjs.fsf@gnu.org> <874o1j10zv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8362lyvcli.fsf@gnu.org> <87fwl2r0l4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83zkjatnkz.fsf@gnu.org> <877h6et8oi.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83vctxua2y.fsf@gnu.org> <87r54le4rd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1313517048 8830 80.91.229.12 (16 Aug 2011 17:50:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:50:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 16 19:50:43 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QtNml-0007Nn-Hk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:50:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51909 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QtNmk-00089b-V7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:50:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:60021) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QtNmh-00089C-Lg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:50:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QtNmg-0002sS-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:39598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QtNmg-0002sF-8z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:50:38 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LQ100500862VC00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:50:04 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.47.19]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LQ1002TF87E1ND1@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:50:04 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87r54le4rd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143324 Archived-At: > From: Chong Yidong > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:48:54 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> since there is no near-term solution, how bout turning off bidi > >> display reordering for prog-mode buffers? > > > > What for? No one complained about it yet > > I think I mentioned in an earlier message that the presence of RTL > characters mucks up the display of Emacs Lisp buffers. This happend to > me while writing code containing RTL strings to test > string-mark-left-to-right. Won't a newline and/or LRM/RLM (the latter inside the string) fix that? If not, please show me the relevant examples. In general, all reordering information is tossed at every newline and restarted anew for the next line. So judicious placement of newlines should do the trick in most cases. > Those buffers aren't displayed in an intelligible manner, because > they require missing "higher-level protocols" to display properly. I think you exaggerate. Both strings and comments are mostly displayed correctly, and a few nasty surprises can be fixed by inserting newlines and sometimes directional control characters. Sure, there's place for improvement: Emacs should not force the user to format the source in some specific manner, for it to display correctly. But for someone who actually uses R2L characters in comments and strings, this is a definite improvement compared to Emacs 23, where they had to read them backwards. > In prog modes, which require that higher-level segmentation > functionality, it then makes sense to disable bidi display for now. I disagree (see above), but I'll go with anything you and Stefan decide. > This would also give a lot more time to study different ways of > implementing segmentation (e.g. definining segmentation characters vs > extending the bidi code to recognize text properties). I don't think we should feel pressed to resolve this before Emacs 24.1, since the problem is not as acute as it may seem at first glance. So we have that time anyway.