From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12911: 24.3.50; let users decide where (& perhaps whether)`emacs_backtrace.txt' files are written Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:58:35 +0200 Message-ID: <836250vyfo.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wqxk3d1z.fsf@gnu.org> <83y5hyxnb1.fsf@gnu.org> <83wqxhy4ha.fsf@gnu.org> <83fw45xxzk.fsf@gnu.org> <83ehjpxwqd.fsf@gnu.org> <838v9xxss8.fsf@gnu.org> <83zk2dvsba.fsf@gnu.org> <50AB0EDE.40109@dancol.org> <83r4now6jk.fsf@gnu.org> <50ABBFA4.6080402@dancol.org> <83haokw3ss.fsf@gnu.org> <5CBDAE291F7447E8834BD7E61FF36B8A@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1353441596 15059 80.91.229.3 (20 Nov 2012 19:59:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:59:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12911@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 20 21:00:07 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TatzK-0001g9-1u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:00:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39000 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tatz9-00042B-Pr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:59:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49612) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tatz7-000426-4f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:59:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tatz5-0000lB-F5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:59:53 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tatz5-0000l6-Bj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:59:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Tau0D-0002po-J7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:01:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:01:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12911 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 12911-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12911.135344161310844 (code B ref 12911); Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:01:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12911) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2012 20:00:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TatzQ-0002op-Pm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:00:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:60231) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TatzO-0002oh-0H for 12911@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:00:11 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MDS00900Y1W5A00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 12911@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:58:55 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MDS008W1Y66MJB0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:58:55 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <5CBDAE291F7447E8834BD7E61FF36B8A@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:67240 Archived-At: > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, > RP_MATCHES_RCVD,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: <12911@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:57:00 -0800 > > > Yet another candidate is "My Documents" (e.g., bzr uses > > it). But none of them is really for the user, according to Windows > > guidelines. > > Really? I don't know (or care too much) what Windows guidelines might say about > this. But I would be mildly curious about that, if you happen to have a URL. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb762494%28v=vs.85%29.aspx > Everyone I know considers `My Documents' and its subfolders to be a user folder > - maybe even *THE* user folder par excellence. "The file system directory used to physically store a user's common repository of documents." What do you make of that? "User's documents", not "user's files". > There is even a `My Documents' folder for each user defined for the machine. > (Another name for it can be Administrator's Documents, Drew's Documents, Eli's > Documents. etc.) Yes, that's the "virtual folder" part in the description on the above URL. But then you also have per-user "Application Data", "Temporary Internet Files", "Favorites", and many more. Being per user does not mean it's up for grabs for any particular purpose. > Why any program (e.g. bzr, apparently) would want to consider that folder as > fair game for stuffing its internal stuff is beyond me. How impolite. Not at all. It is customary, at least on Unix, to put logs, command history, and other similar files in the user's home directory. > Anyway, let's see what good ol' Wikipedia has to say... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Documents > > My Documents is the name of a special folder on the computer's > hard drive that the system commonly uses to store a user's > documents, music, pictures, downloads, and other files. > > Whaddya know? And it says `My Documents' was introduced, "as a standard > location for storing user-created files." Don't believe everything Wikipedia says. > Hm. That all sounds just like what I think about it. And about its subfolders, > including `My Music',... That "My" should tell us something, I would think. Then why did that "My" part disappear in latest Windows versions? There's no C:\Users\\Documents etc., with "My Documents" just a symlink. See http://windows.microsoft.com/is-IS/windows-vista/What-happened-to-My-Documents > `My Documents' is not the kind of place a civilized program would want to > pollute with its own crap. It's _your_ crap, because it's _you_ who runs that program. > That is not the same as a place to stuff program-internal data. We have > `Program Files' and user-specific `Local Settings\Application Data' for that > kind of thing. As I wrote earlier, writing to "Program Files" is a bad idea, as it is not writable in Vista and later.