From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master f995fbd: * lisp/server.el (server-name): Add autoload cookie. (Bug#23576) Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 20:47:53 +0300 Message-ID: <8360u88vue.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20160518194708.27363.47377@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20160518194708.86FE0220157@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <834m9u9dis.fsf@gnu.org> <5jy474fxib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1463766500 22363 80.91.229.3 (20 May 2016 17:48:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 17:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 20 19:48:09 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWh-0005uU-Du for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 May 2016 19:47:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55805 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWg-0003dq-Hj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 May 2016 13:47:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33323) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWa-0003da-Ma for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2016 13:47:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWX-0001IQ-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2016 13:47:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52743) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWX-0001I7-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 May 2016 13:47:45 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3465 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1b3oWV-0003nx-Ef; Fri, 20 May 2016 13:47:43 -0400 In-reply-to: <5jy474fxib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 20 May 2016 13:30:04 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:203909 Archived-At: > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 13:30:04 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> Autoloading defcustoms just so people can set them interactively before > >> the associated package is loaded is a Bad Thing. > > > > I don't understand why. Can you explain? That's not the only > > defcustom that is marked as autoloaded. > > It's the Emacs policy, and has been for years, to not autoload > defcustoms unless it's really needed for some special reason. Eg Well, heck, I guess I'm against that policy. > I agree with Stefan. It's just wrong. Don't try to solve a generic > issue by autoloading the world one piece at a time. We must solve the problems that annoy users (and me as well). If we cannot put our money where our mouth is, we should solve the problems in some less clean way, but solve them we must. Refusing to solve problems because the available solutions are not clean enough, and then doing nothing to provide a more clean one, is not a good modus operandi for a project, IMO. > >> IMO it would have been better to simply remove the bit about > >> set-variable from the manual. > > > > I don't see why we should remove useful advice from the manual, just > > because it's inconvenient to make it work. > > It's not useful advice. This is the only instance of M-x set-variable in > the entire manual! No-one using multiple servers (a relatively advanced > feature) needs that crutch. It adds nothing to the manual to have it > there, and it should be taken out. I obviously disagree.