From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24860: 24.5; doc string of `transpose-sexps' Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:58:11 +0200 Message-ID: <8360o3lg7g.fsf@gnu.org> References: <51926a3e-1aa2-417c-b354-ce0bb6499ba5@default> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478253715 29436 195.159.176.226 (4 Nov 2016 10:01:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 10:01:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 04 11:01:51 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bJB-0002ud-EP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:01:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37464 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bJD-0002fo-AP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 06:01:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44831) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG9-0000oD-Nq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG6-0002tr-Aa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:56113) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG6-0002tZ-7C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG6-0002eS-0v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:02 -0400 Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2016 09:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: cc-closed 24860 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Mail-Followup-To: 24860@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Original-Received: via spool by 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D24860.147825348110184 (code D ref 24860); Fri, 04 Nov 2016 09:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24860-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2016 09:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43278 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG5-0002e9-3Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bG4-0002dw-7s for 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:58:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0002dq-WD for 24860-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51304) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0002de-S0; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:49 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2176 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1c2bFt-0000eb-05; Fri, 04 Nov 2016 05:57:49 -0400 In-reply-to: <51926a3e-1aa2-417c-b354-ce0bb6499ba5@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:125331 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > > 1. This part of the doc string is unclear. I have no idea what it is > really trying to say. > > Does not work on a sexp that point is in the middle of > if it is a list or string. > > What does "does not work" mean? Raises an error? Does something that > we cannot describe? Does nothing? Depending on what are the surrounding sexps and where point is, it could do any of the above. > When point is in the middle of a list it can also be between two sexps, > which themselves could be lists: ((foo)|(bar)), with point at |. What > "does not work" in that case, with an ARG of 1? > > This part of the doc is completely unclear. Since the doc string starts by saying "Like M-t", its intent was to contrast the behavior against that of transpose-words, where point could be both between the words and in the middle of a word, in order to have that word transposed with the next one. That doesn't work with sexps. > What's more, it is not mentioned in the Emacs manual (node > `Expressions'). It is mentioned, in a way, because the manual says C-M-t is analogous to C-t, i.e. it doesn't start from M-t. I clarified this aspect in the doc string. > 2. The doc string needs to say, as does the manual (node `Expressions'), > that a zero ARG has particular behavior (and describe it) - it is not a > no-op. Added. > 3. I think it would help for the manual (node `Expressions') to give a > simple example showing the usefulness of the zero ARG case. It's not > too clear from the description why this behavior is provided. Volunteers are welcome to come up with useful examples, but I think the bug report can now be closed, as the zero argument case doesn't have examples in other similar commands as well. Thanks.