From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30530: 26.0; Emacs manual: mention (1) user-reserved keys, (2) users can bind any keys Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 17:49:03 +0200 Message-ID: <83606ewk9c.fsf@gnu.org> References: <<<> <83lgfi4qw2.fsf@gnu.org>> <529ae5d2-b5e8-40d1-aaa6-87a76003b8bc@default> <83h8q62sgd.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<<87zi3y13jf.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>>>> <<<<83d10nyf4y.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<92c8fd97-8e96-4e2b-8706-f5ca97869912@default>>> <<<831sh3y51x.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83woyvvy8g.fsf@gnu.org>> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520005696 5832 195.159.176.226 (2 Mar 2018 15:48:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 15:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 30530@debbugs.gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 02 16:48:11 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ermuo-0000wF-S8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 16:48:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36015 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermwr-00076E-Ak for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:50:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34822) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermwf-00071B-TD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:50:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermwc-0008Rr-PC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermwc-0008RM-LJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:50:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ermwc-0003zm-Cd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:50:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 15:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 30530 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 30530-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B30530.152000574215286 (code B ref 30530); Fri, 02 Mar 2018 15:50:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 30530) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Mar 2018 15:49:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41439 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ermve-0003yK-6z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:49:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43345) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ermvb-0003y0-9p for 30530@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:49:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermvS-0007cG-U4 for 30530@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:48:54 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59237) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ermvS-0007c6-QQ; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:48:50 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3469 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ermvS-0007ab-1s; Fri, 02 Mar 2018 10:48:50 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 2 Mar 2018 07:17:14 -0800 (PST)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:143844 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 07:17:14 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, 30530@debbugs.gnu.org > > It is fine for the Emacs and Elisp manuals to point out that users > can bind these keys and that the keys are reserved for them. > [...] > That's not the same thing as the doc of a library that > most Emacs users use, and that is often the gateway to > starting to use Emacs, telling users that they should > bind these keys _for that library_, for best results. There's no difference here that I can see. Library docs are written by the same people who answer questions in stackoverflow and write blogs, and draw from the same knowledge and experience. Suggestions for convenient key bindings in a manual that describes a library is no different from a suggestion in a blog about such bindings. Making them different, let alone to a degree that requires denigrating one of them, is more than splitting hair. > Either the keys are reserved for users or they are > not. IMHO, the _single_ message about these keys > from Emacs to users (especially new users) should > be the message that these keys are reserved for > their use. End of story. Saying that they are reserved and suggesting to bind them in some situation are two different ways of saying the same thing.