From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#45806: 26.3; `menu-bar-separator' Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 19:03:40 +0200 Message-ID: <835z42dr4j.fsf@gnu.org> References: <<73e90890-b70a-4eb8-aa9e-d40959d1e1ec@default>> <<83pn2adwn1.fsf@gnu.org>> <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3615"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 12 18:20:17 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kzNL7-0000pl-3M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:20:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56568 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzNL6-0000u7-2u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:20:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN5O-0006yU-U0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:49651) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN5O-0000Me-KT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN5O-0007HX-Gf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:04:02 -0500 Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 17:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: cc-closed 45806 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Mail-Followup-To: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Original-Received: via spool by 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D45806.161047102827964 (code D ref 45806); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 17:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 45806-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2021 17:03:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32963 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN59-0007Gw-MK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN56-0007Gi-G9 for 45806-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN50-0000Ef-0z; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:38 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1306 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kzN4p-0005X2-8Z; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:03:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4313a39b-5d20-4fff-ab14-fb9be0a43a78@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:34:04 -0800 (PST)) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:197809 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:34:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 45806@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Sorry, this name is with us for too long to rename it now. > > Not a great reason not to rename and alias. Why am I not surprised that you don't accept the judgment of the project maintainers? > > > How is it actually used? Is it used only in (some?) toolkits? > > > > Look at menu-bar.el (obviously), it's used all over there. On all the > > toolkits and also in no-toolkit builds. > > I already looked at all occurrences in the Lisp sources. Then I really wonder why are you asking all these questions. > AFAICT, _none_ of those occurrences show how it's used > in the sense of explaining its effect. You see the effect as soon as you look at the menus which use it. > I'm looking for info about its implementation and what > it actually does - info presumably available in some C > code. HOW it does what it does. The HOW is always in the code, so filing a bug about the documentation is not going to reveal that: we won't describe the implementation in the documentation. So I'm closing this bug report. > See also the question about whether it's used only by > toolkits. In GUI Emacs on MS Windows, for instance, > the effect of a separator is a continuous separator > line, while the effect with `emacs -nw' seems to be a > pair of hyphen chars. Each toolkit/UI variant produces its particular visual, but they all do, and the effect is the same: to visually separate between groups of menu items. > > See above. If you really want to see the effect of changing it > > (why?), I think you will need to rebuild Emacs. > > You think so? How about having the doc specify that, > or whatever the actual behavior is. I see no reason. You are looking for the kind of internal details that are always found in the code. > FWIW, this bug report is a result of seeing this user > question: > > "Is it possible to change the menu separator?" > > https://emacs.stackexchange.com/q/62717/105 Not every question means something is wrong with our documentation. Sometimes the answer is "use the source, Luc".