From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2022 19:02:16 +0300 Message-ID: <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30104"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 06 18:22:33 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nyFUu-0007X1-Ck for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 18:22:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35816 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyFUt-0005Zi-2t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 12:22:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46050) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyFBV-0004zw-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 12:02:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39942) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyFBU-0006qk-Gd; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 12:02:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Y2bn/o9Q7uWSGkplpi3hZ2i+gWGDqwPRfJ97oBeI+k4=; b=HNO8jq3xBoUa kMQxhCQ6GUXKBfnO2bynCsPHUXEIMPQsXkTTaExAQVVBNXnHGeTSalG1ardYEUfFrHcdmQRAmc/3v BQvbD+zzAd2f7c/nehSx9nKL5FakOKCGG4V2eXUrJEWnhnjGvAKz1c1f2yPEz2MXZTCpmN9Z1X3tE 1eEasB5ScLOvRoDxatpirSQRzOJaybGXf7h4I0LfwkDBOImzaYGvFFUvhfy5jNyFAJEWmGFnKobhG gGgf1wQcmm6hXIs36F7rAZkx/7AktI+5iqUHvVARC1/nncR1CI63IPbzsmjMSbCrbD2JhV4YPbBaK aOPtxzLCiyPNkZ4lYD0n0Q==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4885 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyFBS-0003uc-Nk; Mon, 06 Jun 2022 12:02:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Tim Cross on Mon, 06 Jun 2022 23:57:55 +1000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290805 Archived-At: > From: Tim Cross > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2022 23:57:55 +1000 > > > There are 784 key bindings in org mode. How can you say that this isn't > > complex and difficult to learn? > > > Very simply because the vast majority of those key bindings only come > into play when yhou use advanced features of org mode, such as the > agenda or table editing or noweb mode. If your just using basic org mode > features, very very few of those key bindings even come into play. Just > go throgh that list and remove any bindings relating to agenda mode, > table editing mode, source block modes, clock table mode, list editing > mode, etc and you end up with very few key bindings (all of which are > udner the C-c prefix, unlike your previous claim). How about if you do this exercise and walk us through the results? Visit an Org file, type "C-h b", then show us the list, and tell which bindings you think are "basic" and which are "advanced", and why you think so. I can tell you what I see with my very simple 1570-line Org file, which just has some todo items organized in 4-level hierarchy: . ~100 keys that look "general Org" to me . ~30 keys that Org remaps to its s own commands, like 'yank' and 'backward-sentence' . ~40 keys bound to org-babel-SOMETHING -- no idea why these are bound by default, but they are there . ~60 more keys that I'm not sure whether they are "basic" or not, but they are all bound by default, just because I visited an Org file So "just" 230 key bindings. And this is without any minor/add-on Org mode/feature enabled, at least according to "C-h m". Do you see something different? Are you still saying that it's not a lot, or that it's "based on ignorance and paranoia"? If so, please point out where I'm ignorant and/or paranoiac, because I'd really like to know.