From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59559: 28.1; `minibuffer-with-setup-hook' with :append Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:58:35 +0200 Message-ID: <835yczkt4k.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87pmbmnvdd.fsf@web.de> <87358iuqsj.fsf@web.de> <87edro6jl7.fsf@web.de> <837cxflm9c.fsf@gnu.org> <875ycz7hvt.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28751"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 59559@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 22 06:59:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNv-0007Gc-7V for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 06:59:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNg-0001IB-2C; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:59:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNe-0001Hz-Sp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:59:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNe-00036V-Js for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:59:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNe-0008I1-Fh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:59:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:59:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59559 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 59559-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59559.167436712031831 (code B ref 59559); Sun, 22 Jan 2023 05:59:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59559) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jan 2023 05:58:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50437 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNI-0008HJ-2U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:58:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58096) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNG-0008H6-Dh for 59559@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:58:38 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTNA-0002su-Ct; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:58:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=kprJO5fe8az06ZAF9b1WWsUmhc8PH4YJVMOfQK4O1lg=; b=cBmD+EZ6yhvy 9zMOWyqpmnCLGxJocDp+/1+5XyVKxTioPYW+80VDtbiDMN6iLDFtG9FNObmkYiumFUeT5h8j2VfFR U6KAiyJNafias3MQiI8cLMmPD03BiIb3ZvxBZ2U2HN+STvyAUUt1RQBul+TEfXK0W7SXiidsqGPcy siwT83PAOad8K3NaVNIetgxMSl+LG6L289Rwm+qsDYmWeJU7DLEwOTsc0Xb5s/sNvntr83ZzgzMWB mfv4LHwq3Xghn+VXagb2ydVpkax/+nzRHSk5yrBrGFgpEqDLC+n7jvpTWhzcjItfzwGAjUTIRITvE pPCeMvVVlb593PjH+SpCbw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJTN9-0000E3-Iw; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 00:58:31 -0500 In-Reply-To: <875ycz7hvt.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:27:34 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:253903 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: Drew Adams , 59559@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:27:34 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > All of your suggestions just muddy the water, making a clear doc > > string confusing and risking the user's interpreting that like some > > kind of black magic is going on here. > > > > The current doc string is clear and easy to understand and use. > > I don't think we will find a version that makes us all happy. I was > actually fine with the original version: > > While the syntax of this macro is a bit unusual, with the background of > the terminology used in the rest of Emacs the description allows only > one interpretation: when we say that the argument (of a macro) is of a > certain form, the unevaluated s-exp is meant. Full agreement, my thoughts exactly. > Else we explicitly say that the value or evaluation result should > have certain properties. That would require us to write a much more complex doc string in this case, and then do the same for all the other macros we have. So I don't think this is a good idea.