From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#18132: Time for a smarter dired-guess-shell-alist-default? (dired-x.el) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 10:08:22 +0200 Message-ID: <835y1915hl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ilxn3qpo.fsf@gnu.org> <878ryizwyi.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86y1eoxtrr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83leaofebt.fsf@gnu.org> <86edgfk37h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83zfz3dyae.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6l9zorh.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <838r6kby1m.fsf@gnu.org> <86msuz5cft.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ttp6j8ax.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8334wp93ww.fsf@gnu.org> <86v89lt6mk.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83leag7loj.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7f8ijnd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86y1eb8bi8.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <861qbz9r54.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86fs0ef372.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y1e529a2.fsf@gnu.org> <86sf4db0wf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24894"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 18132@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 08 09:09:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVvF-0006Hb-Qw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 09:09:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVur-0000Ek-RX; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVum-0000EC-7D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:54 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVuj-0004Bq-Rf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVuw-00031l-9c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:09:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:09:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 18132 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 18132-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B18132.170202291111561 (code B ref 18132); Fri, 08 Dec 2023 08:09:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 18132) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2023 08:08:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43729 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVuR-00030P-4p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38880) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVuM-0002zr-8j for 18132@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:29 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBVu3-00046p-CB; Fri, 08 Dec 2023 03:08:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cUPcSt+gzFhII8LLVZs8aBb4Qmkq9mLEKnqFmFUTe00=; b=Yy95b4jLcW9d 2czeRne9nPtIix+uCoEUyvU9ABRt21032YwaCXGeyMULFAudZDe+uQZP0w1Ax5qZnrw/nY5EjREF+ zGYSduJvZX29WvMCL7iVLFDQcM0VmQx7Q66fz8YxyI82SkvVtAMIQTRDYQzS2eja8E6qTP4b3D8e7 nb1O6D7+ds6wU3TcPc8R9hINdk7tNNi0lLYRyT8GaA+6SE0XfP+I5/HXYqkx874FnAqMLTjwl5obh MvsxLZRsmIxvbmVWOEdWHJjXDB/POo0793HsBU+BXRQA0a6I7K+L/ORei0/67VM5hspr53rPEbwei kxwTUTxc+uZ6riVc3DEaeg==; In-Reply-To: <86sf4db0wf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 08 Dec 2023 09:37:20 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:275735 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 18132@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 09:37:20 +0200 > > > Thanks. However, to justify such significant changes in this > > database, we need much more details: we need to know, for each guess > > you want to disable or delete, when and on what platform(s) is or was > > it true, when and why and on what platform(s) it stopped being true, > > and what replacement(s) are available on modern platforms for those > > commands that are no longer useful guesses. > > Do you really think it's possible to get a list of all popular commands > available on all platforms? Maybe not all commands on all platforms, but at least we should investigate those you are suggesting to remove. Here's the list of them: dvips xdvi play xine ogg123 mpg123 bitmap xloadimage display xpdf antiword strings At least some of those I recognize: xdvi and dvips are from TeX Live; xloadimage is probably from X, antiword is still available (I think), and strings is part of GNU Binutils, so should be on any system that can build programs. So I'd like to understand better why we are removing those. > > And if the guesses you are removing are supposed to be guessed better > > by XDG, then we should do that in a way that still supports systems > > without XDG. > > This is just a random list of arbitrary commands. > And the problem is that dired doesn't check with 'executable-find' > if any of them is really installed. Well, then maybe Dired should indeed use executable-find? Or maybe it's okay not to check, since (AFAIU) these are just candidates to be suggested to the user? > But OK, if you want 100% backward-compatibility, > I will refactor out this list of obsolete commands > into a separate variable used by default. > Then a new value of existing option will allow omitting it. See above: perhaps we should first discuss the principles that guide you when you decide that some of these commands are "obsolete". > Instead of this I'm addressing multiple complains. > Here is just a few after a very quick search, > I remember there were much more: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2008-06/msg00202.html This one seems to ask about adding a command not in the list. And it doesn't complain about xloadimage and display, it says the OP "didn't like" them. > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2021-10/msg01952.html This says two things: . some commands in the list are less capable then others . XDG can do the job better To the first point, my response would be: put the better ones first in the list, but leave the worse ones in the list for those users who don't have the better alternatives. To the second point, I repeat what I already wrote in my previous message: we should also support systems without XDG.