From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9571: 24.0.50; user option to turn off bidi, please Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:04:11 +0300 Message-ID: <834o02t4tg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8362kjsjsk.fsf@gnu.org> <83ty83qq3e.fsf@gnu.org> <83ehz7qbts.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316873198 31768 80.91.229.12 (24 Sep 2011 14:06:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9571@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 24 16:06:34 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsE-0000FP-8Z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 16:06:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39466 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsD-00080Z-K8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:32838) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsB-00080R-2m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsA-0002Kd-3U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:31 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:32836) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsA-0002KZ-0Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7Ssg-0008Eo-48 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:07:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9571 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 9571-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9571.131687320031628 (code B ref 9571); Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:07:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9571) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2011 14:06:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsJ-0008E4-ML for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7SsH-0008Dx-SZ for 9571@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:06:38 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LS1007005K12F00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 9571@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:04:12 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.215]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LS100HQP5QZWNA0@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:04:12 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:07:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51780 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:20 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, 9571@debbugs.gnu.org > > Those messages seem to be arguing against maintaining big changes to > implement non-bidi display. I agree with that. > > But they don't seem to be an argument against simple code that would > disable the recognition of the bidi specialness of characters. That's an entirely different request, it was never voiced before (and I suspect that it won't satisfy people who argue for a user option to disable reordering). Assuming I understand the request correctly, see below. The way I understand this request is: make it so that the result of reordering is the text in its original logical (i.e. buffer or string) order. The code that is involved in reordering, largely in bidi.c and xdisp.c, will still work as it normally does. Is this what you are asking for? If so, then the way to have this is to modify the relevant Unicode property of the R2L characters so that they are treated as L2R. This is easier in Lisp than in C, because the table where these properties are kept is just a specialized form of a char-table, and Lisp code can modify it. Note that we currently have no mechanism for making this table of Unicode properties buffer-local, so changing the properties will affect all the windows on all the frames. But since we are talking about something that's supposed to be used for very short periods of time for exploring rare problems, I think it's not too important. If it's important, and Stefan and Chong agree, I can write a command to do this. Again, I don't think this is what the original proponents of the option wanted, because implementing what you suggest will not bypass any of the code in the new display. IOW, I think it's an entirely different feature.