From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13580: 24.2.92; regression in calc-convert-units Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:49:34 +0200 Message-ID: <834nhm97y9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y5fdq72z.fsf@lukas.physics.niu.edu> <87y5fau50b.fsf@truman.edu> <20755.59013.344289.873545@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87liazq4su.fsf@gmail.com> <20756.3431.129502.895875@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87liazn9ir.fsf@gmail.com> <20756.5321.329711.746535@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <878v6z3k2p.fsf@gmail.com> <83haln8ars.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3qi514c.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1360335004 21963 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2013 14:50:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:50:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13580@debbugs.gnu.org, Roland Winkler To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 08 15:50:24 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pHU-0003B1-HS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:50:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32811 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pHB-00067I-Mi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:50:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pH7-00065W-2U for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:50:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pH5-0001lA-LZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:50:00 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pH5-0001l5-IX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:49:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pH8-0008FP-Ct for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:50:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13580 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13580-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13580.136033496831652 (code B ref 13580); Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:50:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13580) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2013 14:49:28 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43174 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pGZ-0008ET-Vv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:49:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:41779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U3pGX-0008EJ-LU for 13580@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:49:26 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MHW00L00P1VAT00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13580@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:49:14 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MHW00LW3P620090@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:49:14 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87k3qi514c.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:70885 Archived-At: > From: Jay Belanger > Cc: 13580@debbugs.gnu.org > CC: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:30:43 -0600 > > > He is talking about this (see > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensionless_quantity): > > I've indicated that I know what dimensionless means Sorry about that. I wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page in this regard. > Sure, but if a user asks Calc to work with m/m, the classic Calc > behavior was for Calc to ask for a new unit, then basically ignore it > and cancel the units. If the user put in "3 m/m", "New units: rad", the > result would not be "3", not "3 rad". (Behind the scenes the new unit > would be introduced but then disappear.) It ended up just simplifying > the units. Asking for unused information seems like a bug. This was > changed so that it wouldn't ask for the essentially unused information. > Since Calc then acts without informing the user, I added information and > allowed the user to treat the expression as unitless. That is the way I > would like to use it. But it seems like there are two reasonable > behaviors when the units cancel: > (1) Simplify the expression. (The 24 branch behavior.) > (2) Treat it like a unitless expression. (The trunk behavior.) > Changing from the classic behavior to (1) was fixing a bug; when I heard > a complaint about the lack of information that (1) provided, I changed > to (2). > Perhaps Calc should stick to (1), and let the user deal with the > simplified expression. > > Or: What do you suggest? I'd rather hope that Roland will suggest the alternative behavior he would like to see instead.