From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:12:11 +0200 Message-ID: <834mt93d4k.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <83388v6hsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsftgd5.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83mw722eit.fsf@gnu.org> <87egse56hb.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <87oarhzt87.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <20141205222416.GH7784@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417821149 13858 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 23:12:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 23:12:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 00:12:22 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx22u-0005NK-KK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 00:12:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52828 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx22r-0002qc-HX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx22a-0002qR-7X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx22V-0005RC-Rz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout24.012.net.il ([80.179.55.180]:36768) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xx22V-0005Qv-K9; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:11:55 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout24.012.net.il by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NG400N00SQWGH00@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:04:09 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NG400MUGTEX1H20@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 01:04:09 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20141205222416.GH7784@thyrsus.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.180 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179064 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 17:24:16 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , > eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Karl Fogel : > > That's going to be a good investment of my time, after the initial > > rejection of the idea? > > There's another version of this that's common here. It's "We will not > consider anything new unless you commit to doing *all* the hard work > yourself, up front, and also a whole bunch of related shitwork that we > haven't been able to find anyone to take on." Welcome to Free Software. > It's basically a way to day "Fuck off" while sounding pseudo-responsible. > It doesn't fool anyone, though. The underlying message of reflexive > rejection of change is clear. It just means it's not my itch to scratch. There's no rejection here, quite the contrary: many times such suggestions are welcome. But someone still has to do the work, and the best candidate is the one who is the most motivated to do it. > Heaven forfend anyone should offer to ... cooperate. Spread the load. > When was the last time we heard anyone saying in reaction to a big new > proposal "That's a great idea you just had. I'll do *this* piece." You don't see that because you don't want to. Read this list more carefully, and you will see plenty of examples of such cooperation. > And yet, we wonder why there are 500+ regulars on #emacs who don't dare > set foot in here. Well, why should they? It's a hostile work environment. Nonsense. There's no hostility here.