From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 22:48:29 +0200 Message-ID: <834mcfnzs2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <87fuw090k7.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83y49spuxt.fsf@gnu.org> <87pov4achc.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <20160308213635.GE6269@acm.fritz.box> <87pov3cur7.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <83a8m7o1ph.fsf@gnu.org> <87lh5rcsgc.fsf@acer.localhost.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457556524 24537 80.91.229.3 (9 Mar 2016 20:48:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 20:48:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ingo Lohmar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 09 21:48:37 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1adl23-0000pb-1U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:48:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44413 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adl22-0007jM-Kd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:48:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49267) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adl1o-0007j9-W6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:48:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adl1l-0000PA-P7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:48:20 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46792) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adl1l-0000P3-Mc; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:48:17 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4285 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1adl1l-0003fV-05; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:48:17 -0500 In-reply-to: <87lh5rcsgc.fsf@acer.localhost.com> (message from Ingo Lohmar on Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:22:11 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201319 Archived-At: > From: Ingo Lohmar > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 21:22:11 +0100 > > In any case, I was speaking mostly hypothetically. I am either > interested in a high-level description of some changes that might affect > me, or cool new things to try, in which case I look at NEWS. Or I am > interested in details of what a function does differently now, or a > changed call signature or whatever --- in that case, I have never found > the Changelog to be sufficiently detailed. Instead I will look (on the > next possible occasion) at the (commits that changed the) source code. My use cases are very different, because more often than not they have to do with fixing some more-or-less subtle bug in code written long ago and modified many times since. I use "git log -L" a lot (it even ran out of memory few times on me), but that often is not enough, because you can see the code changes, but not many explanations why they were made. And since people who made those changes are generally very bright, concluding that they just made stupid mistakes somehow doesn't seem appropriate. So I need every piece of evidence I can dig up, in order to figure out the reasons for the change. I frequently search mailing list discussions around the dates of the changes, including mailing lists that are now long gone, and bug reports. An accurate log entry is sometimes a jewel, in that it suddenly makes all the pieces to fall in place. A bad log entry, by contrast, is a stub in the back.