From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#57161: 28.1.91; two column windows merge leaves 2nd column window showing Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 14:11:32 +0300 Message-ID: <834jych28r.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83tu6hmgn6.fsf@gnu.org> <5a92575-6941-50d-81e6-e96948bdef5@SDF.ORG> <83sfm1mfjo.fsf@gnu.org> <7cf48bf-992e-8c7f-92be-bf88484e812@SDF.ORG> <83r11lmej7.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtc8ib7m.fsf@gnus.org> <87lerpask7.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5729"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: van.ly@sdf.org, larsi@gnus.org, 57161@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 16 13:12:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUU-0001G5-TX for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 13:12:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44878 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUT-0005Lv-QI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:12:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUM-0005LT-QD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:12:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:55347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUM-0007Vv-IF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:12:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUM-000429-9n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:12:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 57161 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 57161-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B57161.166064831215488 (code B ref 57161); Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:12:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 57161) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2022 11:11:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUB-00041k-II for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:11:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuUA-00041Y-C6 for 57161@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:11:50 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51594) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuU4-0007Ur-Uk; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:11:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=B3rkWyT5flc1V3OYieWYS17gj00DD5b8QFCVIowX2wM=; b=g0KrYnmjMTAM TIpRPzWTZb6XPIBflqCtIx2GKMVLiq4J/6QGANCMLXM93jqu8IKSbBnzktYmLVdcY5Ih3ni9t1h0I zKJ0XNMErH2JE0X6yBPiGAU7q6EWJJZO8seEk7RvldMza2ax3NS3Bm3XWxuty1quAZ6pZhJt7YLo5 VhdqAAYtFsj1t9UQvnW0anBILVwcfgbdzhGEzQFLeea4yb+WObJtxALE7B7Ald6Umc5kq+0TbeHC9 9SwaDOLUXBYvQKn8t0ot7e5SoObCWChbLn22r6QfumSR79EK2lsUDm9SYYhF2X70trnInUuTPeMyX NCb4LimbwpJhIt4Mn+NxYg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2156 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oNuU3-0004Dw-QG; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:11:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87lerpask7.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Tue, 16 Aug 2022 03:24:56 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:239897 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Van Ly , > 57161@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 03:24:56 +0200 > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > I've never used this mode before, and I'm kinda flabbergasted that > > something as esoteric as this is bound to by default. > > That whole 2C library is a bit esoteric. > > If you edit the remaining narrow window and try to merge (again), the > second column is actually doubled in the original buffer. That narrow > window is useless, it's even harmful! > > BTW, I tried a buffer with this contents: > > 1 11 > 2 22 > 3 33 > > If you place the cursor before the separator (space char) instead of > after it, C-x 6 s infloops. Not nice. > > > I then though: Do these narrow windows maybe suggest that one can > iterate 2C processing to conveniently edit more than two columns? But > no, that just messes the original buffer if you try. > > > So this bug report is one detail. The whole library doesn't look very > intuitive and user friendly. Maybe 0.02 users in the world understand > it and make good use of it. Or maybe it has never been a good package. > > I have tried to use it multiple times and was always disappointed about > the experience. It gives an unfinished impression. Seems not good that > it occupies F2, and also not good that it's built in. I'm sorry to be blunt, but to me, this and other similar postings sound like shooting first and painting the target around the shot afterwards. IOW, there's no need for a long report of "findings" if all you want to say is "I don't use this and I don't like how it works". It is shorter and much more clear to say the latter. Also more direct. If people want to deprecate/obsolete and eventually remove this package if no one uses it, I'm perfectly okay with starting that process now. Then, when we eventually delete it, or maybe even after enough years in lisp/obsolete/, we can "free" the F2 binding. But doing this abruptly, right now, just because we never before looked at the package, is a non-starter: that's not how we obsolete and remove old stuff in Emacs.