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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>
Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 12450@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#12450: Remove configure's --without-sync-input option.
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:43:10 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83392is0xt.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <50559CF9.1060605@dancol.org>

> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 02:33:45 -0700
> From: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>
> CC: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, lekktu@gmail.com, 
>  12450@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Working on the the Emacs core is like doing road work in an old city
> filled with catacombs, unmapped utility lines, and ancient Roman
> sewers under the streets. Work is slow and fraught become nobody
> really understands what's going on, and nobody really understands
> what's going on because nobody works on it.

That's an exaggeration.  Just a year ago I finished working on a major
change in the display engine.  I do understand the code I changed.

I'm quite sure that Stefan has similar, if not better, understanding
of the parts he changed to introduce lexical binding.

> Paul's doing a great job reducing a lot of the low-level complication
> in the code.

I agree.  But where the code we change is not understood well, let
alone related to platforms Paul doesn't use and doesn't care about,
peer review and commentary are in order.  I see nothing in this
process that is extraordinary; do you?

> In particular, his work would have simplified my patches
> yet-unmerged for launching children via posix_spawn and having Emacs
> not poll every few seconds while blocked and waiting for input. Both
> are good user-level features.

That's good to hear.  However, simplification of the code is not a
goal in itself.  The simplified code should be correct, first and
foremost.  That is what this discussion is about, at least as far as
I'm concerned

> The MS-Windows support in Emacs, by the way, is a microcosm of the
> problem I mentioned above. We really need to stop support for Windows
> 9x and non-UNICODE systems if we're to simplify the code enough to fix
> nagging problems, like persistent flickering on tooltip updates.

I don't see any relation between non-Unicode APIs and flickering.  If
you can explain how they are related, please do.

> I'm
> also much less motivated to add features (like rich copy-and-paste
> support) when I have to go dig up Windows 95 documentation and
> translate it from the ancient Sumerian in order to figure out whether
> the code I'm writing might break when the Museum of Computing tries to
> run a modern Emacs on one of its exhibits.

I already suggested a way of dealing with that: introduce new features
conditioned on a run-time test of a variable, which will only be
non-zero on the latest versions of Windows.  There's no requirement to
have every new feature work on Windows 9X; the only requirement is to
try not to break existing features that already work there (and even
that requirement is not non-negotiable).





  reply	other threads:[~2012-09-16 10:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-09-15  7:54 bug#12450: Remove configure's --without-sync-input option Paul Eggert
2012-09-15  9:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-15 10:14   ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-15 11:03     ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-15 19:59       ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-15 20:15         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-15 20:31           ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  6:33         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16  7:47           ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  8:05             ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16  8:17               ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  8:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16  8:24                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16  8:34                   ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  8:53                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-15 21:12     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-09-16  5:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16 14:58         ` Stefan Monnier
2012-09-16 15:45           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16 16:30             ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16 18:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16 19:55                 ` Jan Djärv
2012-09-16 18:37             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-09-16  9:33   ` Daniel Colascione
2012-09-16 10:43     ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2012-09-16 15:10       ` Stefan Monnier
2012-09-16 15:40         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-15 22:18 ` Richard Stallman
2012-09-16  3:15   ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  6:10     ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16  8:23       ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  8:32         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16 21:48           ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-17  7:42             ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-21 20:50               ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-22  9:03                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-22  9:34                   ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-22  9:50                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-22 10:01                       ` Paul Eggert
2012-09-16  9:52         ` Daniel Colascione
2012-09-16 10:44           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-09-16 10:56             ` Daniel Colascione
2012-09-17  7:41               ` Eli Zaretskii

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