From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15095: 24.2; mail items in Tools menu confusing to new users Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:44:59 +0300 Message-ID: <8338qbpt90.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y584tdzu.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <837gfop2r7.fsf@gnu.org> <87ob90uk62.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1376534716 23047 80.91.229.3 (15 Aug 2013 02:45:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:45:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15095@debbugs.gnu.org To: Carson Chittom Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 04:45:16 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYq-0001gE-BO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:45:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50996 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYp-00025e-Pp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:45:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37082) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYj-00025Y-5d for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:45:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYd-0008Oy-TX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:45:09 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYd-0008O4-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:45:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYc-00076Z-V0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:45:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15095 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15095-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15095.137653468227257 (code B ref 15095); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15095) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2013 02:44:42 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYH-00075Z-MS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:44:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:39616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9nYD-00075G-0i for 15095@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:44:38 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MRJ00D00WPQ8200@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15095@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:44:30 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MRJ00D6JWY51C60@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:44:30 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87ob90uk62.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:77365 Archived-At: > From: Carson Chittom > Cc: 15095@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:49:57 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Another issue that might be confusing here is that you can start mail > > composition and send it without reading any email before that. That's > > why there are 2 menu items instead of one. > > I agree (of course) that that's what's going on and why there are > currently two menu items. My contention, though, is that the kind of > people who are apt to be confused are the same people who don't want to, > or rather don't think to, send mail without going to the mail function. > Put another way, "Send a mail message while in the text editing mode" > sounds strange unless you already know how Emacs handles sending mail, I'm guessing everyone is nowadays aware of a function in a word processor that sends the current document via email. So I think you are wrong here. > Incidentally, I didn't remember what came up, so I just tried (via > emacs -Q and then going through Rmail) to send a message like a new user > would. Emacs (presumably message.el) just prompts me to select "mail > client," "transport," or "smtp" to send my message; and there is no > indication that I've left Rmail. The indication is in the mode line, as usual in Emacs. After all, that's how you know you are in Rmail, right?