From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:15:13 +0200 Message-ID: <8338mkb2u6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5288A59E.7030109@dancol.org> <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mwl04w3k.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <87iovo4caz.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <877gc14vzs.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <878uwhxnqe.fsf@informatimago.com> <83txf4cw9z.fsf@gnu.org> <416D7143-AE4A-45FF-A3A3-AA208D268D97@informatimago.com> <83hab4ce1o.fsf@gnu.org> <87vbzkvyiz.fsf@informatimago.com> <83bo1bcysn.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385414120 2758 80.91.229.3 (25 Nov 2013 21:15:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:15:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Allen S. Rout" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 25 22:15:24 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl3V5-0001bi-SU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:15:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55091 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl3V5-0008PX-EH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:15:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35532) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl3Uw-0008EX-2R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:15:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl3Up-0003lz-UY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:15:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:54206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl3Up-0003lK-Mz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:15:07 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MWU00800876P000@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:14:59 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MWU008758CYLJ50@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:14:59 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165726 Archived-At: > From: "Allen S. Rout" > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:42:52 -0500 > > On 11/23/2013 03:22 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > > The layout depends on the medium in very minor ways, as long as we are > > talking about the "usual" page sizes. If what you have in mind is A3 > > paper or greeting cards, then the layout is indeed greatly affected, > > but that's taking the issue to its extreme. > > > > IOW, WYSIWYG is much more than just layout. > > > > I think this is a critical point, and I think that Eli is deeply > incorrect here. WYSIWYG is -only- about layout, for the overwhelming > majority of its users. I think that's why many of us aren't so fond of it. Then I guess there are several conflicting ways of interpreting WYSIWYG. It's not that I just landed from Mars, or never saw a WYSIWYG word processor before. We will just have to agree to disagree. Of course, the real question is what did Richard have in mind. > There is no distinction between letter and greeting cards which is not > present in the comparison between letter and > letter-with-really-small-margins. Line breaks, kerning, justification > details... all of this is relevant if we actually want WYSIWYG. I won't object if Emacs supported writing papers in a WYSIWYGy fashion, but didn't support greeting cards.