From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17362: 24.4.50; inconsistent key notation: `ESC' vs `' Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:20:20 +0300 Message-ID: <8338gwlz7v.fsf@gnu.org> References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1398799320 23251 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2014 19:22:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:22:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 17362@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 29 21:21:53 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDbB-000139-Rr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:21:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52135 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDbB-0001ZU-EI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:21:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49302) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDaZ-0000Gl-Iw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:21:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDaQ-00052w-J5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:56292) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDaQ-00052k-FZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDaP-0007wI-Rt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:21:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17362 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 17362-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17362.139879922330436 (code B ref 17362); Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 17362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2014 19:20:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45409 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDZm-0007up-LN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:20:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:61743) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WfDZi-0007uY-TA for 17362@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:20:20 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N4T0090040ZPV00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 17362@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:20:12 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N4T009JX4DNLS30@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:20:12 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:88456 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:09:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: dmoncayo@gmail.com, 17362@debbugs.gnu.org > > And you write , using the Lisp symbol name `left', because what > is printed on the keyboard key is an arrow, not "Left". And yet for > , the manual refers to it as both and (in > Emacs 20 it was referred to as (only) ). I simply never saw a keyboard with a "next" key, so I don't know how it is labeled. I left those as they were because of that. > These are inconsistencies within the manual, IMO. They complicate > understanding unnecessarily. They are not inconsistencies to me, because there's a reason for selecting each spelling, and I explained that reasoning. Others are welcome to come up with different schemes, if they want, but I think in general too drastic changes should be avoided, because people are used to see "TAB" and "ESC". > > I disagree. The manual should make it easier for the reader to > > identify the keys it talks about. For that reason, using the keys' > > labels is IMO more useful and efficient than using their lowercase > > variants. > > See above. The manual can mention commonly used key labels, to help > users make connections. But it makes little sense for the manual > to represent these keys differently in key sequences from the way > Emacs itself represents them. If you mention the labels in just one place, it is as if you didn't mention them at all. It's a large manual, and no one reads the section about why the keys are named like they are. Most readers want to read what directly pertains to the subject they need now, and little else. So the key sequences in the manual need to use a consistent naming scheme throughout, and not just in some obscure subsubsubsection. > > > > I only fixed inconsistencies in the manual, without any relation to > > > > what Emacs says in help mode. > > > > > > You fixed only some inconsistencies in the manual, but that is OK > > > for this bug report. It is inconsistent to use sometimes > > > and other times, and , and , > > > and so on. > > > > There should be only these variants in the manual: > > Sorry, that was incorrect: it should be , in all caps. The others are correct. > > If you find others, please report them as documentation bugs. I tried > > to fix them all, but maybe I missed some; it is a large manual. > > There are lots of occurrences of . Before my changes, yes. Now I see only one, in the Glossary.