From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 22:43:45 +0200 Message-ID: <8335y2gwse.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8ed9b43502ae1480e06b@heytings.org> <83r1lohqoc.fsf@gnu.org> <834kiiitxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtwah77h.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft22h0cu.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23617"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: bugs@gnu.support, ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, matt@rfc20.org, larsi@gnus.org To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 21:46:45 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAIrN-0005zW-B0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 21:46:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44440 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAIrM-0006ed-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:46:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42786) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAIoW-00055V-Qp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:43:51 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAIoV-0007Ey-53; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:43:47 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2639 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lAIoQ-00037T-J9; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:43:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Yuri Khan on Fri, 12 Feb 2021 03:32:52 +0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264444 Archived-At: > From: Yuri Khan > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 03:32:52 +0700 > Cc: Matt Armstrong , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , "Alfred M. Szmidt" , > Gregory Heytings , Jean Louis , > Emacs developers > > > > Not really. In a fresh ‘emacs -Q’, when I press ‘C-x ?’, I get a help > > > buffer that has three logical pages and is 10.5 screenfuls long. > > > > Yes, and that's bad because...? > > I’m ranting about a particular kind of discovery here, where you > progressively choose among a small number of possibilities. When > looking for C-x v d, I don’t need to know about 100+ characters I can > enter via C-x 8. Of course, you do: you typed "C-x", not "C-x v", so who knows what you are looking for. How did you know to type "C-x" anyway? why not "M-x" or "C-c"? > In progressive discovery, those would be collapsed to a “C-x 8: > insert special characters” and “C-x C-k: keyboard macros”. Progressive discovery in Emacs begins with "M-x apropos", not with "C-x". > > But there's that "[back]" button at the end of the help text... > > Yes, and getting to that requires either knowing that it’s there, or > scrolling through the whole list. If you actually _read_ the text that's presented to you, you _will_ get to the end. > The GTK menu only lets me select items with the mouse or arrow keys. Then it's a problem with GTK. Consider using a different toolkit, or report a bug against GTK.