From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com,
66706@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
stefankangas@gmail.com
Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:26:06 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <8334xwfuo1.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87pm10sqnw.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 27 Oct 2023 05:14:11 +0200)
> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
> Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 66706@debbugs.gnu.org,
> stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 05:14:11 +0200
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > > Short version of my reply: Emacs users are a different group than Elisp
> > > package developers. Let's help them by forcing a lexical binding cookie
> > > in the config file instead of simply making their Emacs potentially not
> > > starting up.
> >
> > If this is about init files, we could instead make processing init
> > files assume lexical-binding by default.
>
> That's exactly what we should avoid because it can make Emacs not start
> up for init files that require the current default of dynamical binding.
How many of init files do indeed require dynamic binding? And why?
If a new Emacs version refuses to start because something in the init
files goes against some new Emacs feature, we have --debug-init and
other facilities to debug and fix those. Why should lexical-binding
be considered different from any other backward-incompatible change
that we sometimes do?
In any case, how will injecting the cookie help those users, exactly?
If people who write init files don't understand the implications of
lexical-binding, their Emacs will fail to start, something that you
think is a catastrophe. And if they do understand it, their init
files are already compatible with lexical-binding.
> We also should not assume dynamical binding: lexical binding is the
> default. Emacs should not guess: it should ask the user and then add a
> cookie. That's my point.
Your point seems to be incompatible with our plan, which is to turn on
lexical-binding by default at some point. We don't want to have a
schism of two separate flavors of Lisp, we want only one. The current
situation is a transitional period, not the ideal. You seem to be
suggesting that we should keep this situation forever, and that is not
what we decided, AFAIU.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-10-27 6:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-10-23 17:46 bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-23 18:21 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-23 19:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-23 20:20 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-24 17:31 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-24 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-24 19:19 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-24 20:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-25 2:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 11:56 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-25 12:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 0:31 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-10-26 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-27 3:14 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-10-27 6:26 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2023-10-27 7:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-10-27 7:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-27 14:41 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-29 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 0:59 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 1:20 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 2:01 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 3:01 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 11:48 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 12:48 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 14:56 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 16:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 0:01 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 13:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 13:20 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 13:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 0:07 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 0:40 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:51 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 1:19 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 1:41 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 3:48 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 5:56 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 7:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 2:37 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 2:28 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 5:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 13:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 15:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 16:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:02 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 18:19 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-25 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 19:09 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-25 23:43 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:07 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 2:34 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 3:56 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 5:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 6:31 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 13:54 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 14:02 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 8:32 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-26 11:39 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-26 15:36 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-25 12:36 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-25 12:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 11:06 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-25 2:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
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