From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:38:06 +0300 Message-ID: <831vcclenl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83eigclgf0.fsf@gnu.org> <87aar0y2qm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276339113 521 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 10:38:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 12:38:32 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONO6b-0005Dv-Dx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:38:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35409 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONO6V-0005MX-Eo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:38:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45243 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONO6O-0005MO-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONO6L-00023F-Ha for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:38:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:53698) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONO6K-00022x-Am; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:38:08 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00300DGB3O00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:38:06 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.119.36]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W003IQDJH3L00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:38:06 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87aar0y2qm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125804 Archived-At: > From: David Kastrup > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:17:05 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > In general, I believe the visual-mode movement is useful only to > > people who don't really read the bidirectional text they traverse with > > the cursor-motion keys. > > I almost never use a single left/right cursor-motion keypress. And when > I traverse material with the cursor-motion keys, I don't read it _while_ > traversing. I get glimpses, like when using autorepeat with > scroll-up/scroll-down. My autorepeat rate is about 20 characters per > second. At that speed, I can't really follow forward/backward jumps. > > So no, I "don't really read the bidirectional text I traverse with the > cursor-motion keys", and I want to see a single person either claim that > she presses the cursor key once for every character she reads, or that > she reads text exactly at autorepeat speed, including jumping backwards > and forwards in mixed L2R/R2L text. Then maybe a visual-mode motion is more important than I thought. But it still cannot be the only one, and I still think the logical-order motion is more important, albeit perhaps for shorter sequences of single-character movement.