From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15991: 24.3.50; Wishlist: Make test suite user-friendlier Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:33:27 +0300 Message-ID: <831tua8ww8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83pppk8f91.fsf@gnu.org> <8361jnpq0j.fsf@gnu.org> <53AD0515.3050600@easy-emacs.de> <8338eqq4d7.fsf@gnu.org> <53AD40B3.3060503@easy-emacs.de> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403865269 23687 80.91.229.3 (27 Jun 2014 10:34:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:34:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15991@debbugs.gnu.org To: Andreas =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 27 12:34:21 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TU4-0007aG-GM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:34:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49226 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TU3-0004hU-Ua for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:34:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60895) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTu-0004fU-Eq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:34:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTm-0000NG-Hc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:34:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:43202) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTm-0000NC-Bm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTl-0007cP-UG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:34:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15991 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15991-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15991.140386523329256 (code B ref 15991); Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:34:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15991) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2014 10:33:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34352 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTc-0007bn-Py for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:33:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:61916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X0TTX-0007bM-O2 for 15991@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 06:33:50 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N7T00K00OPVVV00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 15991@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:33:41 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N7T00KWWPC4RT70@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:33:41 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <53AD40B3.3060503@easy-emacs.de> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:90892 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:00:19 +0200 > From: Andreas Röhler > CC: 15991@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. When a test fails, > > don't you want to debug Emacs to understand why and find a solution? > > > > So yes, testing and debugging are different things, but when a test > > fails, one frequently needs to debug Emacs. > > > > > > That depends. IIUC it's about making it more user friendly. > Perspective of users is different from core developers. > > So if, say 10 from 100 tests fail, it doesn't mean to start a debug. > Maybe just taking notice and look, if it matters for current task. If someone just wants to take a look, they can do just that. No one is forcing them to say "make foo.log DEBUG=1" and run the foo test under a debugger. This is an optional feature, as should be clear from reading the original bug report and this discussion. > We had that matter already WRT steep learning curve. > Keeping things apart if possible is important. Not sure how is this related to the issue at hand. Maybe you should read the whole discussion.