From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r117941: Default to stack objects on non-GNU/Linux, non-DOS_NT platforms. Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:14:57 +0300 Message-ID: <831tr0vwf2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <837g0sw1yx.fsf@gnu.org> <5423E5B0.4070002@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411640127 28293 80.91.229.3 (25 Sep 2014 10:15:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:15:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Antipov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 25 12:15:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XX650-0005MM-PG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:15:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39339 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XX650-0002ej-7w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:15:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59026) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XX64s-0002eJ-FV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:15:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XX64n-0003Se-4d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:15:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:52041) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XX64m-0003KI-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:15:05 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NCG00J00CF0OT00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:14:58 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NCG00JR2CGYFA40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:14:58 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <5423E5B0.4070002@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174704 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:51:44 +0400 > From: Dmitry Antipov > CC: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On 09/25/2014 12:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > It was done in complete silence, without prior discussions wrt > > whether to make this the default. (Yes, I suggested that, but no > > one replied, and we never discussed it.) > > IMO 1) any discussions whether to make USE_STACK_LISP_OBJECTS the default > makes no sense until we know whether it's worth the complexities at all. > For the latter, we need a lot of feedback from users, preferably with > the very different usage patterns and workloads. The simplest (and the > only reliable) method is to enable it by default and see what happens. > OTOH I'm not against making it opt-out, as you suggested. I suggested, and no one responded. Ergo, no discussions. You get more feedback if you enable the feature on all the platforms that can support it. Which is exactly my point. > > It arbitrarily excludes the native MS-Windows builds from this > > feature, for no good reasons: the 64-bit Windows build has no > > problems with it > > IMO 2) responsible developer should not enable any code she/he can't > test. You elided the part where I said that Paul could have asked others to add whatever is necessary for 32-bit Windows. > If you are rather sure that it should work on 64-bit MS-Windows We tested that, so yes, I'm sure, as should be anyone else who reads this list. > > In general, every feature that exists only on some platforms is a > > Bad Thing, as it introduces maintenance problems and in particular > > makes people who work on different platforms unable to usefully > > compare what they see and solve problems reported by others. > > USE_STACK_LISP_OBJECT is not such a feature. It's rather under > construction and not yet populated to all (most?) platforms we aim > to support. If you want to help with that, you're always welcome. You asked help for testing on Windows, and I did just that. If you need more help, you need but to ask. > > In sum, I don't understand these sneaky practices, and I wish they'd > > stopped. > > Sneaky? I would call it too brave. Whatever you call it, it's not how we do things here. Please don't follow that bad example, and please don't get fascinated by it.