From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Option to not automatically customize-save-variable `package-selected-packages' Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:49:37 +0200 Message-ID: <831t8aufoe.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56C43D17.7010009@alice.it> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455814203 7798 80.91.229.3 (18 Feb 2016 16:50:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 16:50:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@gnu.org, angelo.graziosi@alice.it, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 18 17:49:57 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRm7-00073n-PY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:49:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43022 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRm7-0000nB-29 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:49:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59245) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRlm-0000dM-W2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:49:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRll-00066g-7q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:49:34 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:51682) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRla-0005uc-0d; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:49:22 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1843 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWRlY-0000H3-Qf; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:49:21 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Artur Malabarba on Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:43:10 -0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200126 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:43:10 -0200 > From: Artur Malabarba > > > Angelo, would you open a bug on this matter so that we can track it properly, > > and you'll be included on the discussion? > > Since nobody replied to my call for volunteers (and I sadly really can't do it now), we should probably file a bug and mark it as blocking release 25. I don't see why this should block the release. It's a very old and established behavior. It's okay to discuss changing it, but blocking the release due to it certainly doesn't sound TRT to me. > > Perhaps the experts in this area have better reasons than we've > > heard so far. > > IIRC, the discussions for this feature included me, Stefan, and Thierry Volpiatto (amongst other people). Can you point to those discussions? If you mean this one: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00756.html then after reading it, I'm none the wiser: I don't see the issue with saving customizations in a separate file raised there. I found in this thread the following part: > > > Unfortunately whenever I install/update packages, it saves > > > `package-selected-packages' to my customize file. This is a bit annoying as I > > > share my config with git across multiple machines that have different packages > > > installed. > > > > > While I could alter the definition of `package--save-selected-packages' > > > myself, I'd think it would be nicer if there was a user option to toggle > > > this behaviour. The default initialization of `all non-dependencies' seems > > > to be what I'd always want anyway. > > > > This sounds like a reasonable request to me; and I sympathize with emitting > > such generated data to a potentially user-controlled file. Maybe this data > > could go into another file entirely? > > Yes, I agree. This has been requested by other people too. This variable should be saved in its own file (at a configurable location), like many other cases of persistent data in Emacs. > > Would someone like to do this? I won't have the time for it ATM. This seems to be a general complaint about package.el using Custom to save the data about installed packages. I see no arguments as to why it's wrong to use Custom for that. After all, Custom is our standard way of saving customizations, so it could be argued that having a single mechanism through which to control where they are saved is better than inventing a separate mechanism just for package.el. > My opinion now is in agreement with yours, John, and with Angelo in that this should move to a dedicated file (though I originally thought using the custom settings was a good idea). Please explain why you now think differently. Thanks.