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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2021 21:36:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <831r3yjqo9.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwva6imqsqs.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:12:56 -0400)

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>,  cpitclaudel@gmail.com,
>   emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:12:56 -0400
> 
> > You cannot see those characters on a screenshot, for the same reason
> > you cannot see any whitespace characters on a screenshot: they are
> > only discernible when you move cursor through them.  Which is why I
> > asked how are you looking for them.  If you are looking for them in a
> > screenshot, you will never see them.
> 
> But that's the core of the vulnerability: if you just look at the screen
> (and just scroll through it) you will have an incorrect understanding of
> what the code does.

If you want a more prominent display, customize
glyphless-char-display-control to show format-control characters as
acronyms, say, or as hex-code.

And anyway, my point was that Emacs deviates from Unicode here, which
says not to show these controls at all, and by deviating it gives the
user some defense against these problems.  I did say originally the
defense was "weak", so if you want to point out that this is a weak
defense, you are preaching to the choir.

> It's good that such bidi override chars are displayed as a thin space,
> but it's mostly useful to make it possible to edit them (or to `C-x =`
> on them), but I don't think it makes a significant different in terms of
> the security issues introduced by the presence of those chars in the code.

In most cases, there's no need to make these controls stand out,
because situations where this presents security risks are extremely
rare, to put it mildly, and OTOH having them stand out more by default
will make it harder to read text with completely legitimate uses of
these controls (example: TUTORIAL.he).  Therefore, IMNSHO it's okay to
have this off by default (and have a way of turning that on in case of
increased paranoia).  Moreover, I think adding features that detect
the suspicious uses of this functionality will better serve our users
than just showing the controls more prominently, because it will have
a much lower probability of false positives, and will avoid getting in
the way of reading legitimate text which uses these controls for valid
reasons.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-02 19:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 172+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-11-02 12:57 Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-02 13:18 ` Po Lu
2021-11-02 13:54   ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 14:53     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:16       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:21         ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 16:24       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-02 16:47         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 17:01           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 17:10             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 18:43               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 18:49                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:12                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 19:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-11-02 19:47                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 19:51                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 21:28                           ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 13:30                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:41                             ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 17:56                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 18:20                                 ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-03 19:02                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:46                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:58                                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 20:21                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 20:31                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:16                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  7:16                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  9:06                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  9:19                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  9:48                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  8:44                                     ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-03 18:45                                 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 19:09                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:35                                     ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 20:01                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 20:45                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 20:53                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:23                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  6:58                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  8:53                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  9:15                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:54                                     ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 20:08                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  6:00                                         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-04  7:44                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04  9:14                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  9:45                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 10:41                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 11:03                                                   ` Po Lu
2021-11-04 11:27                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 11:20                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 11:34                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 13:25                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 14:10                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 16:50                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 17:04                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 19:16                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-05 23:31                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-06  7:25                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 19:22                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-04 19:55                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 23:32                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 19:08                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 20:00                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05  2:23                                             ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05  3:52                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05  5:21                                                 ` code annotations Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05  5:53                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05  5:23                                                 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05  6:13                                                 ` Po Lu
2021-11-05  7:37                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05  8:00                                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05  8:07                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05  9:58                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 12:12                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 13:08                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 14:19                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 23:33                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-06  0:54                                                                 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-06 10:56                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 10:48                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 19:58                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-08 20:27                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 21:59                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-09  3:28                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 13:58                                                               ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2021-11-06 15:34                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 17:09                                                                   ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2021-11-06 17:35                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05  8:09                                               ` tomas
2021-11-06  1:09                                                 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05  8:31                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05  9:34                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-04 19:05                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 21:13                                 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-04  6:52                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 20:18                       ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Tim Cross
2021-11-03  0:28                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03  1:07                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03  1:59                         ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 13:35                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03  9:59                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 11:19                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-03 11:31                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 12:20                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 12:41                                 ` tomas
2021-11-03 13:15                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 14:46                                     ` tomas
2021-11-03 17:13                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:34                                         ` tomas
2021-11-03 13:46                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:45                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:44                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 14:29                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 14:37                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 16:01                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 17:44                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:53                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 11:29                           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-11-03 18:47                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 18:52                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 19:19                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 19:28                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:32                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 19:41                                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 20:12                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 22:03                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04  8:50                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:51                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:30                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:34                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-11-03 19:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:37                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 18:53                             ` Manuel Giraud
2021-11-03 19:36                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:15                                 ` Manuel Giraud
2021-11-04  6:56                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 19:04                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:33                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:26                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 19:44                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:49                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 18:16           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-02 18:37             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:17         ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-02 19:37           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 17:24       ` [authors: default bidi-display-reordering is set to t] (was: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful) Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 17:37         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:31   ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:13     ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 13:42 ` tomas
2021-11-02 14:57   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 14:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:43 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-03 15:07   ` Reini Urban
2021-11-03 15:43     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-04  7:50       ` Reini Urban
2021-11-04  8:21         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:24     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 18:53 ` Unicode confusables " Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-05 20:03   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 11:56     ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-06 12:20       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 13:10         ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-06 13:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 21:36   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-10 15:47 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters " Dmitry Gutov
2021-11-10 17:03   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-10 17:15     ` Dmitry Gutov

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