From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, 66750@debbugs.gnu.org,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, stefankangas@gmail.com
Subject: bug#66750: Unhelpful text in C-h v for variables with a lambda form as value
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 15:50:14 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <831qd88dt5.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZUONjYAG93UCC6y7@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 2 Nov 2023 11:52:45 +0000)
> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 11:52:45 +0000
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 66750@debbugs.gnu.org, acorallo@gnu.org,
> stefankangas@gmail.com, acm@muc.de
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
>
> > > I think you've already decided not to merge feature/named-lambdas. I'm
> > > not surprised, but it's a shame.
>
> > I didn't yet make any decision, because I still hope you will agree
> > with at least some of the arguments. Or at least agree to some kind
> > of compromise, even if you keep your opinions.
>
> I don't think Stefan is talking about a compromise. He's talking about
> discarding my changes entirely, and starting again from scratch, working
> to design principles and with design goals I disagree with. How is that
> a compromise?
>
> Or had you in mind something less drastic?
How about if you propose a compromise with which you could live?
> A couple of days ago I got the error message:
>
> emacs-lisp/eieio.el:55:2: Error: Wrong type argument: listp, :autoload-end
>
> At the indicated file position there was just a `require' form. So there
> was no information about where the error happened, what detected the
> error, or what function or what variable gave or had the value
> :autoload-end. It says little more than "there was an error". This is
> what I mean by "horrible".
This is what I call "debugging". By and off itself, such a situation
is not necessarily anywhere near "horrible". For example, it could be
that in the 'require'd file you will easily find the reference to
:autoload-end.
I also don't necessarily see how this is relevant to the issue at
hand.
> > If I have a single significant gripe against Emacs Lisp backtraces, it
> > is that there's no way of jumping to the offending source line in each
> > stack frame, something that is very natural to provide.
>
> This would be more difficult to implement.
Maybe so, but if your feature doesn't bring us closer to that goal,
then for me personally it is much less interesting.
> > Anonymous lambdas come as a very distant second or third problem, at
> > least IME.
>
> They've been a problem for me, at least. That's why I set about solving
> it. And being of a lower priority is no reason to reject an existing
> fix.
You know very well that priority is not the reason we are arguing.
There's no need to bring up irrelevant side-tracking arguments, it
doesn't help in any discussion, and more so in this one.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-11-02 13:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-10-25 17:09 bug#66750: Unhelpful text in C-h v for variables with a lambda form as value Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-25 20:53 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-10-27 11:35 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 9:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 15:04 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-28 15:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-28 16:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 17:17 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-28 18:17 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 18:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-28 18:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-28 19:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-29 4:14 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-29 11:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-29 16:32 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-29 18:50 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-29 21:47 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-30 9:44 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-01 12:47 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-11-01 15:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-01 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-11-01 20:30 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-01 22:46 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-11-02 6:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-02 9:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-02 10:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-02 11:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-02 13:50 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2023-11-02 15:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-02 16:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-02 17:12 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-11-02 21:44 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-11-02 22:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-03 3:20 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-11-03 19:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-03 22:18 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-11-04 15:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-26 12:32 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-27 17:23 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-03-25 12:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-02 20:53 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-11-02 21:20 ` bug#66750: help-split-fundoc (was: bug#66750: Unhelpful text in C-h v for variables with a lambda form as value) Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
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