From: Sivaram Neelakantan <nsivaram.net@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Issues with emacs
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:43:41 +0530 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <82vcieeyay.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: slrnjujef4.2mn.notbob@nbleet.hcc.net
On Tue, Jun 26 2012,notbob wrote:
> On 2012-06-26, Tom <adatgyujto@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> But it's also a possible that a skilled developer could make a
>> permanent living from developing Emacs features.
>
> Does emacs REALLY need MORE features!? It's already so complex, now,
> as to seem almost unfathomable to many. What emacs needs is some
> refining, perhaps even some simplification. I use slrn cuz it's much
> easier to follow, use, and config than gnus, even though they're
> basically the same utility. Another thing that can't hurt is better
> documentation. The only thing more arcane and vague than the official
> emacs manual are those geeky man pages. One could also make some
> money off documentation. I paid hard cash for the emacs O'Reilly books
> and consider it money well spent. In fact, I need to buy the 3rd
> edition and probably will.
>
I don't get this better documentation part; tangentially, it might be
an asian thing.
When I started learning Emacs, I had to start internalising the
terminology used by Emacs. Frame, Window, Mark, Point etc. When I
understood that, the manual started to make sense a little bit more.
The more I started missing things in Emacs compared to what I was used
to in other editors, this mailing list along with pointers to the
manual made things clear.
I was given Emacs and the manual, that's where I started and while I
did need help to bootstrap things, I don't know how the documentation
can be improved if the mental model that people have of an editor does
not correspond to the Emacs way of things.
I mean, what's the point of doing Ctrl C/V (CUA mode?)/Vi keystrokes in
Emacs, if you're not willing to do things the Emacs way. I think
there is no documentation of Windows HCI guidelines that Emacs
follows. All I seem to see on the list, "documentation is not
helpful"; well about what? No answer because I think some posters are
trying to fit the Windows model on this editor.
oh, that asian thing. I don't/didn't even think of questioning the
way Emacs was built or designed when I first started.
Emacs. Learn it. So I started learning.
This is starting to sound a bit racist and I don't think I got my
point across well too, so I'll stop.
sivaram
--
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-06-26 18:13 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.2952.1339986753.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-18 3:22 ` Emacs users a dying breed? Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-18 9:32 ` djc
2012-06-18 10:25 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-18 17:09 ` Ken Goldman
2012-06-21 15:27 ` rusi
2012-06-22 6:19 ` Tom
2012-06-22 8:45 ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-22 9:40 ` Tom
2012-06-22 11:07 ` Bastien
2012-06-22 11:16 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 23:19 ` James Freer
2012-06-25 7:23 ` give emacs --daemon / emacsclient a try (was: Re: Emacs users a dying breed?) Gregor Zattler
[not found] ` <mailman.3407.1340581002.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25 2:58 ` Emacs for writers (was " rusi
2012-06-25 9:38 ` James Freer
2012-06-26 21:47 ` James Freer
[not found] ` <mailman.3534.1340747277.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-27 3:41 ` rusi
2012-06-22 13:13 ` Emacs users a dying breed? Tom
[not found] ` <mailman.3233.1340370922.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-22 14:12 ` Jay Belanger
2012-06-22 15:02 ` Tom
[not found] ` <mailman.3245.1340377350.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-22 18:25 ` John Bokma
2012-06-22 11:17 ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-22 12:03 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-22 12:21 ` Richard Riley
2012-06-22 13:04 ` Jonathan Groll
2012-06-23 11:33 ` Philipp Haselwarter
2012-06-23 12:05 ` Teemu Likonen
2012-06-23 12:35 ` Philipp Haselwarter
2012-06-23 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-23 13:53 ` S Boucher
2012-06-23 12:37 ` suvayu ali
2012-06-25 19:00 ` Ken Goldman
2012-06-23 14:02 ` S Boucher
2012-06-22 12:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2012-06-22 13:27 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-22 13:45 ` Doug Lewan
2012-06-22 13:09 ` Tom
2012-07-02 11:36 ` Mihamina Rakotomandimby
2012-06-22 15:08 ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) rusi
2012-06-22 15:26 ` Issues with emacs Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-23 2:28 ` rusi
2012-06-23 9:47 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-22 16:41 ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) Drew Adams
2012-06-22 18:01 ` Bastien
2012-06-23 20:04 ` Tom
2012-06-24 11:38 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2012-06-24 14:00 ` Drew Adams
2012-06-25 19:23 ` Ludwig, Mark
[not found] ` <mailman.3361.1340537904.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 13:52 ` Issues with emacs Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.3330.1340481863.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-23 23:49 ` Dan Espen
2012-06-24 1:24 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-24 2:39 ` ken
2012-06-25 18:02 ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2012-06-26 3:03 ` becoming a developer [was: Re: Issues with emacs] ken
[not found] ` <mailman.3485.1340679833.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 3:23 ` rusi
[not found] ` <CAPyVhy_fL3KLrNzqOMbg69UqUMAKPmXbbu7gVYQcK+KiML44hA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAJ+Teof7T6qXdztq_Pjh+S8gVXQV-ToYJ6EQrPNYQAumn_aDOA@mail.gmail.com>
2012-06-27 13:38 ` antoine no
2012-06-27 17:44 ` Aurélien Aptel
2012-06-26 12:29 ` becoming a lisp developer Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-27 15:36 ` ken
2012-06-27 16:12 ` PJ Weisberg
[not found] ` <mailman.3561.1340811384.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-27 16:09 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.3455.1340647361.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25 18:40 ` Issues with emacs notbob
2012-06-25 19:05 ` Glyn Millington
[not found] ` <mailman.3348.1340505598.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 6:39 ` rusi
2012-06-24 7:01 ` Corentin Henry
2012-06-24 7:55 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 16:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-24 17:38 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.3355.1340524541.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 12:17 ` notbob
2012-06-24 13:24 ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 14:42 ` Yuri Khan
2012-06-24 15:08 ` Gregory Benjamin
2012-06-25 19:26 ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-25 19:25 ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 13:36 ` Richard Riley
[not found] ` <mailman.3362.1340544276.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 14:03 ` notbob
2012-06-24 16:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-24 10:14 ` Rainer M Krug
2012-06-24 14:18 ` Drew Adams
2012-06-24 15:41 ` Rainer M Krug
2012-06-24 16:07 ` Drew Adams
2012-06-24 16:48 ` Rainer M Krug
[not found] ` <mailman.3354.1340521292.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 12:15 ` notbob
2012-06-24 14:02 ` Drew Adams
2012-06-25 3:54 ` ken
[not found] ` <mailman.3424.1340596458.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25 5:51 ` rusi
2012-06-25 7:45 ` Helmut Eller
2012-06-25 8:57 ` Tom
2012-06-25 21:24 ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-26 5:50 ` Tom
2012-06-26 20:08 ` Jeremiah Dodds
[not found] ` <mailman.3486.1340689846.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 13:29 ` notbob
2012-06-26 17:47 ` Dustin Hemmerling
2012-06-26 18:13 ` Sivaram Neelakantan [this message]
2012-06-26 18:32 ` Richard Riley
2012-06-28 12:14 ` Tom
[not found] ` <mailman.3520.1340735564.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 19:28 ` notbob
2012-06-26 19:49 ` Ludwig, Mark
2012-06-26 19:52 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-27 15:49 ` PJ Weisberg
2012-06-28 2:09 ` John Wiegley
[not found] ` <mailman.3523.1340740164.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 20:13 ` notbob
2012-06-26 23:57 ` John Wiegley
2012-06-27 9:23 ` temacs Jambunathan K
2012-06-27 14:44 ` temacs Ken Goldman
2012-06-28 2:40 ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-06-28 8:49 ` temacs Bastien
2012-06-29 19:37 ` temacs Ken Goldman
[not found] ` <mailman.3732.1340998682.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-30 3:51 ` temacs rusi
2012-06-27 14:44 ` temacs suvayu ali
2012-06-27 16:24 ` temacs Alp Aker
2012-06-27 19:57 ` temacs Ken Goldman
2012-07-05 4:14 ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-07-05 12:46 ` temacs Eli Zaretskii
2012-07-07 16:51 ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-07-07 17:20 ` temacs Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-27 15:48 ` Issues with emacs Stefan Monnier
2012-06-26 3:08 ` rusi
2012-06-26 8:35 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2012-06-27 5:54 ` MBR
2012-06-26 18:03 ` Bug Dout
2012-06-25 2:43 ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) Ugly Sean
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=82vcieeyay.fsf@gmail.com \
--to=nsivaram.net@gmail.com \
--cc=help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.