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* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
@ 2015-02-17 20:39 Glenn Morris
  2015-02-18  3:44 ` Stefan Monnier
  2015-02-18 20:51 ` Mark Oteiza
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2015-02-17 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 19889

Package: emacs
Version: 24.4
Severity: minor

The tex-verbatim face is defined as

   '((t :family "courier"))

Is this a good idea?

AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family.
It seems to cause problems on some systems, see:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=684797


For me on RHEL7, that faces looks poor (blocky/pixellated) compared to
the other faces Emacs uses.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-17 20:39 bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Glenn Morris
@ 2015-02-18  3:44 ` Stefan Monnier
  2015-02-18  7:40   ` Glenn Morris
  2015-02-18 20:51 ` Mark Oteiza
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-02-18  3:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 19889

> The tex-verbatim face is defined as
>    '((t :family "courier"))
> Is this a good idea?

I think/thought so.

> AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family.

There's also

   (defface Info-quoted
     '((t :family "courier"))
     "Face used for quoted elements.")

> It seems to cause problems on some systems, see:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=684797
> For me on RHEL7, that faces looks poor (blocky/pixellated) compared to
> the other faces Emacs uses.

Maybe we should improve face-font-family-alternatives so as to
automatically find a better courier-like font?

Maybe we also should define a standard/core face for this, which is then
inherited by both tex-verbatim and Info-quoted.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-18  3:44 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-02-18  7:40   ` Glenn Morris
  2015-02-18 14:35     ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2015-02-18  7:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 19889

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> There's also
>
>    (defface Info-quoted
>      '((t :family "courier"))
>      "Face used for quoted elements.")

I see that's relatively new, and only in master.

> Maybe we should improve face-font-family-alternatives so as to
> automatically find a better courier-like font?
>
> Maybe we also should define a standard/core face for this, which is then
> inherited by both tex-verbatim and Info-quoted.

Maybe.
FWIW tex-verbatim looks ok on Debian testing, but as I said not so good
on RHEL7.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-18  7:40   ` Glenn Morris
@ 2015-02-18 14:35     ` Stefan Monnier
  2015-02-18 19:14       ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-02-18 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 19889

> FWIW tex-verbatim looks ok on Debian testing, but as I said not so good
> on RHEL7.

I did see that, and as I said, this should be fixed by adding an
appropriate replacement to face-font-family-alternatives.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-18 14:35     ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-02-18 19:14       ` Glenn Morris
  2015-02-19  1:55         ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2015-02-18 19:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 19889

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 705 bytes --]


C-u C-x = tells me that the font Emacs picks for tex-verbatim is

   x:-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--14-140-75-75-m-90-USO8859-1 (#x6D)

So presumably the problem is that it picks an x font rather than an xft one.
See attached image for how it looks clunky in info.
(I don't normally use Emacs trunk or makeinfo 5, so haven't noticed this
before.)

Firefox just uses "Monospace" font.
Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font".
IIUC, fc-match tells me that monspace == DejaVu Sans Mono.

I know little about fonts, but it seems suboptimal to me to try and
specify a family for a handful of faces, since it's impossible to
predict how it will look in conjunction with the user's other fonts.


[-- Attachment #2: a.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 48171 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-17 20:39 bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Glenn Morris
  2015-02-18  3:44 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-02-18 20:51 ` Mark Oteiza
  2015-02-18 20:53   ` Mark Oteiza
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mark Oteiza @ 2015-02-18 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 19889

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Package: emacs
> Version: 24.4
> Severity: minor
>
> The tex-verbatim face is defined as
>
>    '((t :family "courier"))
>
> Is this a good idea?
>
> AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family.

Info-quoted also does this.

Looking at `grep -iIR ':family "cou' *`, it looks like those are the
only two.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-18 20:51 ` Mark Oteiza
@ 2015-02-18 20:53   ` Mark Oteiza
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mark Oteiza @ 2015-02-18 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 19889

On 18/02/15 at 03:51pm, Mark Oteiza wrote:
> Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
> > AFAICS, it is the only face definition in Emacs that specifies a :family.
> 
> Info-quoted also does this.
> 
> Looking at `grep -iIR ':family "cou' *`, it looks like those are the
> only two.

I should have read ahead, sorry.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-18 19:14       ` Glenn Morris
@ 2015-02-19  1:55         ` Stefan Monnier
  2015-02-19  2:21           ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-02-19  1:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 19889

> So presumably the problem is that it picks an x font rather than an xft one.
> See attached image for how it looks clunky in info.

Yes, that's the usual cause for blocky fonts.

> Firefox just uses "Monospace" font.

When/where?

> Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font".

How's that relevant for tex-verbatim or Info-quoted?

> IIUC, fc-match tells me that monspace == DejaVu Sans Mono.

For tex-verbatim, it shouldn't just be monospaced, but should look
somewhat like TeX's verbatim font (i.e. old typewriter style, i.e. courier).

For Info-quoted, it's not indispensable that it looks like courier, but
it should look different from the default font (by default).  IIUC the
default font nowadays is a monospaced sans-serif font, so I chose
a monospaced font with serif.

> I know little about fonts, but it seems suboptimal to me to try and
> specify a family for a handful of faces, since it's impossible to
> predict how it will look in conjunction with the user's other fonts.

I think we should define a `fixed-width-with-serif' face and inherit
from that, to make the intention clear.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2015-02-19  1:55         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-02-19  2:21           ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2015-02-19  2:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 19889

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> Firefox just uses "Monospace" font.
>
> When/where?

edit/prefs/content/advanced

>> Gnome-terminal has "use the system fixed-with font".
>
> How's that relevant for tex-verbatim or Info-quoted?

"Person who know nothing about fonts tries to provide potentially
relevant information from other applications where the fonts look better
than the one Emacs picked." :)





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family?
  2016-05-06  6:37     ` bug#19889: " Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-05-06 16:02       ` Glenn Morris
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2016-05-06 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 19889

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Is what you see similar to what's shown on the image attached to
> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19889#15?  If so, can you
> explain what is your problem with that display? 

That face looks poor compared to all the others.
If you don't agree with me, fine, please just close this as wontfix,
since I've said everything I can possibly say on this subject already
and it doesn't seem to bother others.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2016-05-06 16:02 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-02-17 20:39 bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Glenn Morris
2015-02-18  3:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-18  7:40   ` Glenn Morris
2015-02-18 14:35     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-18 19:14       ` Glenn Morris
2015-02-19  1:55         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-02-19  2:21           ` Glenn Morris
2015-02-18 20:51 ` Mark Oteiza
2015-02-18 20:53   ` Mark Oteiza
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-12-18 18:25 bug#22207: emacs-25 mishandles info code text on Fedora 23 Paul Eggert
2016-05-05 20:48 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-05 21:29   ` Glenn Morris
2016-05-06  6:37     ` bug#19889: " Eli Zaretskii
2016-05-06 16:02       ` bug#19889: tex-verbatim face: don't specify :family? Glenn Morris

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