Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Bruno Félix Rezende Ribeiro]

Remember to cover the basics, that is, what you expected to happen and
what in fact did happen.  You don't know how to make a good report?  See

     http://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback

Your bug report will be posted to the Org-mode mailing list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider the following org code:

--
This is only a text.[1]

[1] This is a text body's footnote.[2]
[2] This is a footnote's footnote.
--

When org-mode exports this code to html, despite the fact that
footnote 2 is present in the final document, it don't exports
footnote 2 reference as a link to footnote 2; it's exported just
like plain text.


Emacs  : GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2012-02-08 on felix-laptop
Package: Org-mode version 7.8.03

current state:
==============
(setq
 org-log-done nil
 org-export-latex-after-initial-vars-hook '(org-beamer-after-initial-vars)
 org-todo-keyword-faces '(("DOWNLOADING" :foreground "dark blue" :weight bold)
			  ("ERROR" :foreground "red" :weight bold))
 org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-default-hook org-babel-speed-command-hook)
 org-metaup-hook '(org-babel-load-in-session-maybe)
 org-footnote-section nil
 org-footnote-tag-for-non-org-mode-files nil
 org-after-todo-state-change-hook '(org-clock-out-if-current)
 org-footnote-fill-after-inline-note-extraction t
 org-footnote-auto-label 'plain
 org-export-latex-format-toc-function 'org-export-latex-format-toc-default
 org-tab-first-hook '(org-hide-block-toggle-maybe org-src-native-tab-command-maybe
		      org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe)
 org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)
 org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-export-first-hook '(org-beamer-initialize-open-trackers)
 org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
 org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
 org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees org-cycle-hide-drawers org-cycle-show-empty-lines
		  org-optimize-window-after-visibility-change)
 org-export-preprocess-before-normalizing-links-hook '(org-remove-file-link-modifiers)
 org-email-link-description-format "Email %c: %s"
 org-mode-hook '(turn-on-auto-fill turn-on-flyspell turn-on-font-lock
		 #[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
		   [org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-show-block-all append local] 5]
		 #[nil "\300\301\302\303\304$\207"
		   [org-add-hook change-major-mode-hook org-babel-show-result-all append local] 5]
		 org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes)
 org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook '(org-babel-hash-at-point org-babel-execute-safely-maybe)
 org-emphasis-regexp-components '(" 	('\"{" "- 	.,:!?;'\")}\\" " 	\r\n,\"'" "." 10)
 org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-export-interblocks '((src org-babel-exp-non-block-elements))
 org-clock-out-hook '(org-clock-remove-empty-clock-drawer)
 org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
 org-export-preprocess-before-selecting-backend-code-hook '(org-beamer-select-beamer-code)
 org-export-latex-final-hook '(org-beamer-amend-header org-beamer-fix-toc org-beamer-auto-fragile-frames
			       org-beamer-place-default-actions-for-lists)
 org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
 org-export-blocks '((src org-babel-exp-src-block nil) (export-comment org-export-blocks-format-comment t)
		     (ditaa org-export-blocks-format-ditaa nil) (dot org-export-blocks-format-dot nil))
 )
-- 
 ,= ,-_-. =.  Bruno Félix Rezende Ribeiro (oitofelix)
((_/)o o(\_)) Uns o chamam de super-vaca...
 `-'(. .)`-'  Outros de hyper-touro...
     \_/      Eu o chamo simplesmente: meta-gnu!

Re: Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

oitofelix@gmail.com (Bruno Félix Rezende Ribeiro) writes:

> Consider the following org code:
>
> --
> This is only a text.[1]
>
> [1] This is a text body's footnote.[2]
> [2] This is a footnote's footnote.
> --
>
> When org-mode exports this code to html, despite the fact that
> footnote 2 is present in the final document, it don't exports
> footnote 2 reference as a link to footnote 2; it's exported just
> like plain text.

There's no official support for nested footnotes in current exporter.
Implementing it would be non trivial (it may be for the HTML back-end,
but clearly not for the LaTeX one).  Since we're working on a new export
engine, I don't think it's worth the effort.

Though, your report made me implement it in the experimental exporter.
Thank you.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Jambunathan K]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> oitofelix@gmail.com (Bruno Félix Rezende Ribeiro) writes:
>
>> Consider the following org code:
>>
>> --
>> This is only a text.[1]
>>
>> [1] This is a text body's footnote.[2]
>> [2] This is a footnote's footnote.
>> --
>>
>> When org-mode exports this code to html, despite the fact that
>> footnote 2 is present in the final document, it don't exports
>> footnote 2 reference as a link to footnote 2; it's exported just
>> like plain text.
>
> There's no official support for nested footnotes in current exporter.
> Implementing it would be non trivial (it may be for the HTML back-end,
> but clearly not for the LaTeX one).  Since we're working on a new export
> engine, I don't think it's worth the effort.
>
> Though, your report made me implement it in the experimental exporter.

From OpenDocument-1.2 spec has the following note

,----
| 6.3.4<text:note-body>
| 
| The <text:note-body> element contains the content of a note. It does not
| have any attributes.
| 
| Note: The schema allows for the inclusion of notes into the note
| body. While this may be reasonable for note types, it is not reasonable
| for footnotes and endnotes. Conforming consumers need not support notes
| inside notes.
`----

LibreOffice doesn't support notes inside notes.  So for all practical
purposes, nested footnotes cannot be supported with ODT export (in both
the legacy and in-the-works experimental version).

If one intends to export his Org file to ODT, then nested footnote
construction should be avoided like plague.

> Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,

-- 

Re: Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> oitofelix@gmail.com (Bruno Félix Rezende Ribeiro) writes:
>>
>>> Consider the following org code:
>>>
>>> --
>>> This is only a text.[1]
>>>
>>> [1] This is a text body's footnote.[2]
>>> [2] This is a footnote's footnote.
>>> --
>>>
>>> When org-mode exports this code to html, despite the fact that
>>> footnote 2 is present in the final document, it don't exports
>>> footnote 2 reference as a link to footnote 2; it's exported just
>>> like plain text.
>>
>> There's no official support for nested footnotes in current exporter.
>> Implementing it would be non trivial (it may be for the HTML back-end,
>> but clearly not for the LaTeX one).  Since we're working on a new export
>> engine, I don't think it's worth the effort.
>>
>> Though, your report made me implement it in the experimental exporter.
>
> From OpenDocument-1.2 spec has the following note
>
> ,----
> | 6.3.4<text:note-body>
> | 
> | The <text:note-body> element contains the content of a note. It does not
> | have any attributes.
> | 
> | Note: The schema allows for the inclusion of notes into the note
> | body. While this may be reasonable for note types, it is not reasonable
> | for footnotes and endnotes. Conforming consumers need not support notes
> | inside notes.
> `----
>
> LibreOffice doesn't support notes inside notes.  So for all practical
> purposes, nested footnotes cannot be supported with ODT export (in both
> the legacy and in-the-works experimental version).
>
> If one intends to export his Org file to ODT, then nested footnote
> construction should be avoided like plague.

It isn't really supported in LaTeX too, but there are workarounds.

If such thing isn't possible, ODT back-end will ignore any footnote
contained in another footnote (i.e. whose genealogy contains an element
with an `footnote-reference' or `footnote-definition' type) and send
a message to the user.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Achim Gratz]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>> If one intends to export his Org file to ODT, then nested footnote
>> construction should be avoided like plague.
>
> It isn't really supported in LaTeX too, but there are workarounds.

There are always workarounds, but footnotes within footnotes aren't
directly supported by any publishing system I know of, and with good
reason.  A footnote, just like a marginal, is an expansion on the main
text that can be skipped without loss of information (but maybe loss of
detail).  So whenever you feel that you need a footnote within a
footnote, you could just as well have two footnotes at the original
place.

> If such thing isn't possible, ODT back-end will ignore any footnote
> contained in another footnote (i.e. whose genealogy contains an element
> with an `footnote-reference' or `footnote-definition' type) and send
> a message to the user.

It would be better to not promote the idea of footnotes within footnotes
and those who insist on using that construct should be required to
explicitly request that feature and suffer the consequences.

Much better would be if starting a footnote while within a footnote
would simply open a new footnote and add the reference at the same place
where the first one was opened.



Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada

Re: Bug: Org-mode don't export to html footnotes references inside footnotes as such. [7.8.03]

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Achim Gratz <Stromeko@nexgo.de> writes:

>>> If one intends to export his Org file to ODT, then nested footnote
>>> construction should be avoided like plague.
>>
>> It isn't really supported in LaTeX too, but there are workarounds.
>
> There are always workarounds, but footnotes within footnotes aren't
> directly supported by any publishing system I know of, and with good
> reason.  A footnote, just like a marginal, is an expansion on the main
> text that can be skipped without loss of information (but maybe loss of
> detail).

That's what I thought before the OP request. Though, it appears that it
is a not so rare need. For example critical editions seem to use it
quite often.

> So whenever you feel that you need a footnote within a footnote, you
> could just as well have two footnotes at the original place.

I have never needed nested footnotes, so I feel like the Devil's
advocate but anyway...

Imagine a very large footnote, spanning over tens of lines.  You would
like to add a footnote next to a word in the middle of that
text. I suppose it wouldn't make sense to get out of that footnote and
be told there's another reference for a word you read many lines ago.

>> If such thing isn't possible, ODT back-end will ignore any footnote
>> contained in another footnote (i.e. whose genealogy contains an element
>> with an `footnote-reference' or `footnote-definition' type) and send
>> a message to the user.
>
> It would be better to not promote the idea of footnotes within footnotes
> and those who insist on using that construct should be required to
> explicitly request that feature and suffer the consequences.

Note that Org inherently supports nested footnotes.  Forbidding them
would be much like an artificial limitation.

I don't mind such limitation, but knowing that they may happen to be
useful, it's worth pondering if it really should be so.

> Much better would be if starting a footnote while within a footnote
> would simply open a new footnote and add the reference at the same place
> where the first one was opened.

That's a possible workaround I was talking about earlier. And it's
perfectly possible with the experimental exporter.  ODT back-end may
implement it.

That's mostly what I did with the LaTeX back-end. Nested footnotes
definitions are inserted right after the top level footnote definition
containing them.  Only footnotes markers are nested.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou