From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Guile in Emacs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:25:33 -0700 Message-ID: <819CB418F9374D3B834E0134A580E73A@us.oracle.com> References: <4B8147A9.7030504@gmail.com> <873a0cyv3r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87aauiho3y.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com><1271028837.6164.55.camel@dell-desktop.example.com><1271102739.6067.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com><8039yz34ka.fsf@tiny.isode.net><1271173887.6067.53.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <87FA5F05CB9C41409B9E72BD06D7C8CF@us.oracle.com><87fx2xp839.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><3EFDD45EB5AD4018B8FEA8F13CFEDA32@us.oracle.com> <345707DD850E4DBAAD1ACA687DC5A514@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271428040 3712 80.91.229.12 (16 Apr 2010 14:27:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:27:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David Kastrup' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, christian.lynbech@tieto.com To: "'Jeff Clough'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 16 16:27:18 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2mVq-00065P-Dx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:27:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35085 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2mVp-0003s1-Pt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O2mUu-0003U3-Di for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45339 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2mUq-0003SJ-OM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2mUi-0000it-JS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:26:15 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:54740) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2mUi-0000iS-Dy; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:26:08 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o3GEPoX4018635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:25:54 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o3GEPkxx009485; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:25:47 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt017.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 166255661271427936; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:25:36 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.220.178) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:25:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: thread-index: Acrda3NaV4m/+7nLT/uEHMpOr8xQmAAAhKyg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A0B0208.4BC8736C.0305:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123761 Archived-At: > It is not okay for critical documentation to be hosted > anywhere but a user's hard drive, 1. Not every bit of description of every single Common-Lisp construct is "critical" documentation. Far from it. You've added "critical" now, but your previous argument was against all, not just "critical", non-local reference. 2. Depending on what is meant by such a watered-down meaning of "critical", it would be absurd in 2010 and beyond to limit, by design, the doc set to what is or can be hosted on a user's hard drive. Which user? What size hard drive? Will you tailor the available doc set by design to Emacs running on a 1 gig flash drive or other lowest common denominator? Nowadays, the number of people who actually download PDF docs for a large software product, in order to have them locally, is miniscule, compared to the number who consult the same doc set on demand, on line (Web) as HTML. It is good for users to be _able_ to have a certain number of core docs locally. And they should be able to control just how much they want to keep locally and how much they are willing to access remotely. But that doesn't mean that the entire doc set for Emacs (or anything else) needs to be or should be kept to a minimal size that every user could store on a typical hard disk. Yes, there are good reasons to avoid documentation bloat - always. Just as there are good reasons to avoid software bloat (a more important argument concerning CL, perhaps). The question in both cases is whether users _need_ all that doc or all that software. _If_ we decide the answer is yes, then, well, it's needed, regardless of how big typical hard disks might be this year. A hard-and-simple hard-disk criterion such as you express is not appropriate. Doc that is not needed by users is wasted and should be pruned. But if some particular doc is needed to explain something, then it's needed, period.