From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7291: 24.0.50; `non-essential' is incomprehensible Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:47:26 -0700 Message-ID: <814E70A041AB4DC2A29E614DB19D2247@us.oracle.com> References: <9499566E643B466092A98013C6826011@us.oracle.com><3457CB74869B424BB0DB5A41C034AED7@us.oracle.com><7908A4E9737248F79A9D74B584DAEAC9@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288372438 6102 80.91.229.12 (29 Oct 2010 17:13:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 7291@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 29 19:13:55 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBsWR-00054l-ML for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 19:13:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50869 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PBsWP-0004VS-GW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:13:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57329 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PBsVw-0004IK-50 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:13:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PBsVt-000255-SA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:13:14 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52974) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PBsVt-000250-PU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:13:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBs4c-0004u0-Bz; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7291 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 7291-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7291.128837069318827 (code B ref 7291); Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 7291) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2010 16:44:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBs4R-0004tc-Uw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:44:53 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PBs4Q-0004tX-Ak for 7291@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:44:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o9TGn0YX008197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:49:01 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o9TGmxZG030063; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:48:59 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 734787831288370848; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:47:28 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.223.180) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:47:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 Thread-Index: Act3hUHjuGw3DcnHQquAzsqmPn2ZpQAAGN3g X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:45:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:41238 Archived-At: > > Code that might perform a non-essential task can test this > > variable and dispense with performing the task if the value > > is non-nil. > > No, this is backwards: e.g. Tramp doesn't know that what it does is > non-essential, Precisely why I said that the task to be performed _might_ be non-essential. Tramp knows that its operation might be disruptive, and it knows that some other code might not want that disruption, and that to communicate that the other code might indicate that the interruption action is "non-essential" (in which case it should be skipped). This variable is about conditionally inhibiting certain actions that could disrupt the user. It would be better for it to be named something that reflects that, but I'm not going to fight that battle. (Consequently, I won't bother to suggest a different name. I'll just say that that is what this var is about - it is not about "non-essential" anything.) > which is why it needs to look up non-essential > to figure that out. And that is why I said that Tramp can test the variable and skip the task if the value indicates non-essential. We are saying the same thing, or trying to. > The only reason it does such a look up is not because it > suspects this is non-essential, but because it is about to do > something that may disturb the user, so it first wants to make > sure it is really necessary to do it. We agree about you wrote in this paragraph (starting with "Tramp doesn't know"). That's just what I tried to say too. So I suggest you put such info into the doc string. I have no objection to your wording here or similar. Both parts of the story need to be presented clearly: (1) the code such as Tramp that conditionally disturbs the user (depending on the var value) and (2) the code such as Icomplete that binds the var during an operation that it does not want interrupted. HTH.