From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Fishman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clojure mode Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 12:36:42 -0400 Message-ID: <7na5tugf39.fsf@ecube.ecubist.org> References: <83wmwyseh8.fsf@gnu.org> <0C5DB7D5-C789-470A-9555-5C91A600DDD5@ryantate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15639"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:pSHUdQTDIquviEnEWv6UgLH9iWA= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 10 18:37:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qfNRY-0003ug-9k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 18:37:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfNQj-0006tI-Ho; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 12:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfNQh-0006mC-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 12:36:59 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfNQf-0005oL-D6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 12:36:59 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qfNQY-0002bm-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 18:36:50 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310442 Archived-At: On 2023-09-10 03:13:30 -04, Ryan Tate wrote: > It’s not ok to behave the way your founder has and then punish people > for calling it out. I’m not particularly active on this list, and I > won’t personally suffer much if you block me, but my language > throughout this has been measured and it speaks poorly of fsf’s values > for you to bully me for speaking out respectfully. > >>> >> >> You are welcome, but please tone down your posts about this. > > I stand by what I’ve written. Reflect and do better! Have a good > weekend. I find it remarkable the someone can claim ethical rights to a symbol name in an Emacs name-space solely because they used it first in a useful package. Especially such a name as closure-mode which is the obvious name for a Closure language mode. You seem to claim that somehow the Emacs developers are now ethically forbidden to make changes that they feel provide improvements in a project they have taken the responsibility to maintain, because someone on the internet has chosen to add an unsolicited extension, and make it available. Personally, as primarily a Emacs user, I find it inconvenient to have my own additions and selected extensions cause Emacs to break for me, due to some change made in Emacs or a package I download and use. I may even complain about it. But the idea that I had some standing as far as having my rights violated seems absurd. May newer projects have name-spaces, and have some registration process for users or projects defining their own unique name-spaces in which they can add their modules. Often that is a DNS registration they own. My Closure mode would be org.ecubist:closure-mode. Things could then be shorten in their code by using some import/export language facility. In Emacs there seems to be a practice of prefixing a common term in a symbol with some likely unique prefix such as their initials and a slash. My own local Closure mode I might call bf/closure-mode. At least then, if there is a conflict (with somebody who's initials are also "BF"), I could find the code to be changed with a regex. Either way, it seems to be reasonable to expect some name change discussion when a mode is formally added into Emacs. And the initial choice of an obvious name for some externally distributed package brings with it an expectation of some future conflict. And in that conflict the defense that you used the symbol first would not be very persuasive. -- Barry Fishman