From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Bozhidar Batsov" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Packages quality (was: [nongnu] main 74116339a8 2/3: * elpa-packages (anzu): New package) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <7e6e189d-0c74-4f0f-9cfc-40fb87bf1b02@www.fastmail.com> References: <164145738158.2838.5769558384331859964@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20220106082302.0A19CC0DA1E@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <87k0fdmbat.fsf@posteo.net> <87tueh3s2x.fsf@posteo.net> <3c5d2b69-7292-4e15-82e5-9f146979257d@www.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0d9cc07217ab4944a00526711ee61daa Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31605"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4526-gbc24f4957e-fm-20220105.001-gbc24f495 To: "Emacs Devel" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 07 11:33:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n5mYo-00083Q-J6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:33:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43744 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5mYn-000169-2b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:33:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36014) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5mOR-0005PD-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:22:43 -0500 Original-Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]:36541) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5mOP-0001si-BU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:22:43 -0500 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A666A32026BE for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:22:39 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from imap43 ([10.202.2.93]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 07 Jan 2022 05:22:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=batsov.dev; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=kNES71JwPHSAdn91NAnnIsZK/xfmsPZ e0CbPvXxCHbc=; b=YUzLke/gnZoedaF6Z5pRWegIs3Fdwoxiown+UhJVsSvNNPI mXsarAlY+QZ8/9SjZ3OMlo12RnI2ANMLVdIEVe1ufItbmLxyTqXIy+kxkVKfkk11 b7MdtnY+5NO53ckOCH8HT1WRMD1OGRBRp9M8mW/knpRQzshTHiA1NjOE5fqO+BYG b0YFITb2dx9dHrhtg3nF9Wx7r5tbSSASypNhRgZ5R/pWm9fsaGTZll8mku7Yw32T ce7iZLMkQgzzslbKJ5bITEQnaHyujoHZN4lI6jOyx+hsAxV0+sct9KxXwAmg+g81 ZPM7OoEdmOcuV4WeyCrPeQQRxBwP1N2CPL/E1GQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=kNES71 JwPHSAdn91NAnnIsZK/xfmsPZe0CbPvXxCHbc=; b=jsMKlGK/vGDeGzjijgC1uv POlClG9z3IceGzeCeMexht6iXWQKId2eYHkZnE1FqkAsJynd3kwtbZBHUozyY3xV fekPjc1bQ/ZUmmOm3G2paQfEwz7rOe0rpemXodbuGHnFG0ugvxcUpxFABzoXmQdq l80UiN0UTZtJhB9s7EADmQsmr60GnyhxLKu4VBiT70uC1+LNW/8sWhMJflaCBo0z jgi9xYQrLU9SlrRoVBUBQ0WSkqrVXU1UHWQtXdQDNx19lseCoDNr+V/0QiwuQp7p 0QVGirfxpYfpvAjoQtcroFUWM4OQDo8pt61Nezg66q49Cr4o7oyQ04wqpsiYVUig == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrudeguddgudegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesrgdtreerreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdeuohii hhhiuggrrhcuuegrthhsohhvfdcuoegsohiihhhiuggrrhessggrthhsohhvrdguvghvqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeegvdetfeekkeetieelffdtkedutdfhffefgedtvefhteef veejhffgtdekjeeiueenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpegsohiihhhiuggrrhessggrthhsohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id D0E2FAC0E9C; Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:22:38 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.19; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284401 Archived-At: --0d9cc07217ab4944a00526711ee61daa Content-Type: text/plain Fair enough. I'm a bit concerned that often evaluations of the quality/usefulness of something are subjective (e.g. the people who like flymake would argue that flycheck might be "redundant", etc). To me - it's fine to try to solve the same problem in multiple ways if there's no clearly superior way of doing something. I guess a package is never really obsolete until no one uses it and maintains it. In general I agree that some quality criteria have to be met for a package to be included on NGE, I just hope that those criteria are going to be of the objective kind. On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, at 9:55 AM, Stefan Kangas wrote: > "Bozhidar Batsov" writes: > > > I'm also curious what "redundant package" even means in this > > context. There are always many ways to achieve something and usually > > there's no clear way to decide if some approach is much better than > > the alternatives. Given how early we are with NonGNU ELPA I think that > > concerns about "obsolete" and "redundant" packages are quite overdone. > > I don't think it's time to start pruning NGE, indeed, but we could avoid > adding packages that are on MELPA that are already obviously > obsolete/superseded. > > For example, I use the software "anki" quite a lot, and there are four > different packages for it. I have tried all of them, and frankly > speaking only one of those packages is relevant. Therefore, I would > advise against adding the others; as Philip points out, this is more > likely to waste users time than be very helpful. > > --0d9cc07217ab4944a00526711ee61daa Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fair enough. I'= m a bit concerned that often evaluations of the quality/usefulness of so= mething are subjective (e.g. the people who like flymake would argue tha= t flycheck might be "redundant", etc). To me - it's fine to try to solve= the same problem in multiple ways if there's no clearly superior way of= doing something. I guess a package is never really obsolete until no on= e uses it and maintains it.

In general I a= gree that some quality criteria have to be met for a package to be inclu= ded on NGE, I just hope that those criteria are going to be of the objec= tive kind.

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, at 9:55 AM= , Stefan Kangas wrote:
"Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:

> I= 'm also curious what "redundant package" even means in this
> context. There are always many ways to achieve something and usua= lly
> there's no clear way to decide if some approach i= s much better than
> the alternatives. Given how early = we are with NonGNU ELPA I think that
> concerns about "= obsolete" and "redundant" packages are quite overdone.
I don't think it's time to start pruning NGE, indeed, but we= could avoid
adding packages that are on MELPA that are al= ready obviously
obsolete/superseded.

For example, I use the software "anki" quite a lot, and there ar= e four
different packages for it.  I have tried all o= f them, and frankly
speaking only one of those packages is= relevant.  Therefore, I would
advise against adding = the others; as Philip points out, this is more
likely to w= aste users time than be very helpful.


<= /div>

--0d9cc07217ab4944a00526711ee61daa--