From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: customization; std vs. personal libraries Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 01:12:20 +0200 Organization: sometimes Message-ID: <7e64xpbbmz.fsf@ada2.unipv.it> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1115853440 9592 80.91.229.2 (11 May 2005 23:17:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 12 01:17:18 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DW0RZ-0008Oi-IA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:16:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DW0aO-0000hx-Lv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:25:52 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!newsfeed.cineca.it!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uninett.no!uio.no!quimby.gnus.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 46 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ada2.unipv.it Original-X-Trace: quimby.gnus.org 1115853138 26256 193.204.44.145 (11 May 2005 23:12:18 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@quimby.gnus.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:12:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:AQvhQ5lzSNtlkgP8QsjTeIMHwnQ= Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:130865 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:26524 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:26524 ken writes: > If thought > through sufficiently [...] probably the result would be straight elisp or the customize facility. > Would it be so difficult to parse a configuration file for values to > plug into a function? parsing is no big deal. the difficulty lies in synchronization w/ the other methods (straight elisp and customize facility), handling session changes, handling syntax and/or semantic errors, providing useful help, etc. note that the customize facility has precisely the same problems to overcome; another configuration format adds more hair w/o resolving these and in fact compounds the problems. > Finally, an ascii configuration file would also provide a listing of > variables pertinent to the user, perhaps helping to maintain the > separation, addressed by Drew, between standard libraries and personal > startup libraries. i think under the ideals of GNU (four freedoms), such a separation would in time (over many years over many people (but obviously not all ;-)) diminish, by dint of source code being able to more easily flow from "standard" to "personal" and back to "standard". this ideal requires questioning of authority, understanding of the mechanisms used by the author, application of those mechanisms on a personal scale (becoming an author in one's own right), and publishing the personalized methods (if one is inclined to share). the framework for this social process requires a language, and although elisp is not perfect (by far) for the purpose of personalizing emacs' behavior, it is superior to declarative languages (like config files), which fail to satisfy deep personalization the way fashion fails to satisfy deep personalization. granted, there are those for whom fashion is enough, whose luxury is to be satisfied w/ a choice of pre-fabbed, post-angst, artful artifact. i can understand that point of view, and suspect that many who would be able to realize the config-file approach you advocate, can also see its merit. however, to realize it you have to hack elisp. and once you've started down that path (why are you fighting it, btw?), people and ideas you find along the way may change your original intent and motivation. thi