From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 30241@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined.
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:54:58 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7e0daea2-f6e1-4b57-a439-df03b35aac3e@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180210215841.GB4537@ACM>
> > > I think you'll see a difference - it is, IMO, "significantly
> > > different".
>
> > Actually, no, I didn't. I do see some additional explanations that
> > might have helped Alan understand the issue, but nothing
> > "significant". So much so that I doubt Alan will find the CL docs
> > helpful after disliking our docs of the same subject, as he did, based
> > on his original bug report. Of course, it's possible that I'm missing
> > something here.
>
> > Therefore, I invite Alan (and anyone else who'd like to chime in) to
> > please compare the CL docs on this matter with ours, and tell what
> > parts of the former made the issue "fall into place" (pun intended)
> > wrt this topic, where our docs don't. Bonus points for proposing
> > patches for the relevant parts of the ELisp manual, to make this
> > subject's documentation "significantly" better.
>
> I've read...,
> and found it clear indeed. However it was also long. After reading it,
> the Elisp sections on generalised variables make much more sense.
>
> This suggests that these Elisp sections contain the material, but are
> not suitable for readers who don't already understand generalised
> variables.
>
> In that CL page, a generalised variable is effectively defined as
> something you can use `setf' on within the first three paragraphs. In
> the elisp sections, that identification is not present in the opening
> paragraphs - there is no definition on that opening page. The first
> sub-page does not define a generalised variable as something you can use
> setf on - it merely says setf is a way to access one. But that
> definition needs to be in the top level page, and it needs to be clear
> that it _is_ a definition.
>
> The CL page gives a complete list of forms setf will work with. The
> elisp page merely gives a list, without it being clear whether that list
> is complete or not.
Good summary. FWIW, I agree. It's about `setf', in particular.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-02-10 22:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-01-24 20:06 bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined Alan Mackenzie
2018-01-24 20:49 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-01-24 21:25 ` Drew Adams
2018-01-24 21:38 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-01-24 21:43 ` Drew Adams
2018-01-26 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-01-26 16:15 ` Drew Adams
2018-01-27 10:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-02 10:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-10 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-10 21:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-02-10 22:54 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2018-02-11 20:43 ` Richard Stallman
2018-02-11 16:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-03-20 20:51 ` Alan Mackenzie
2018-03-21 6:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <handler.30241.B.15168248834946.ack@debbugs.gnu.org>
2018-03-21 17:46 ` bug#30241: (Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined.) Alan Mackenzie
[not found] <<20180124200652.GA4493@ACM>
[not found] ` <<e3468d0d-4ee5-4173-9a0d-051803a8cf08@default>
[not found] ` <<83h8r8ln7u.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<41654c7c-2d8d-44ec-a5c4-dd12014b7a9e@default>
[not found] ` <<83o9lfk2sy.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-01-27 15:31 ` bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined Drew Adams
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