Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Fabrice Niessen]

Tom Roche wrote:
> I've been using emacs for ~20 years, during which I have
>
> 1. accumulated a functional but aesthetically- and
>    maintenance-challenged collection of {init.el, files it calls}
>
> 2. regularly bemoaned the lack of emacs package management
>
> The latter problem has been solved (non-uniquely :-) for awhile now,
> and I'm setting up a new box, so I really should port my emacs
> configuration to the new millenium. I'm wondering, would anyone care
> to recommend especially worthy docs for this process (guides, howto's,
> tutorials)? esp how best to accommodate snippets of elisp (gists?)

FWIW, you can put all your ELisp snippets in an Org file, and comment
them, their usage (key bindings), why you do (or don't do) some specific
stuff, etc.  That's LP (Literate Programming).

That big file (in my case) can be:

- Tangled ::
     Extract the source code blocks and generate *real working code*
     files for further compilation or execution, eventually outside of
     Emacs.

- Weaved ::
     *Export* the whole Org file as literate, *human-readable
     documentation* (generally in HTML or LaTeX).

That becomes an invaluable tool when you need to understand or extand
some part of your config file as, thanks to Org mode, you can focus on
a particular section (hiding all unnecessary ones), or even construct
a "sparse tree" of some function/variable name (that is, display a tree
where only the entries with a match are expanded, all others are
collapsed), and much more.

My example?  Follow http://www.pirilampo.org/emacs/dot-emacs.html [1].

Best regards,
Fabrice

[1] Website still in draft, though...

-- 
Fabrice Niessen
Leuven, Belgium
http://www.pirilampo.org/

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Guido Van Hoecke]

Hi Fabrice, 

Fabrice Niessen <fni-news@pirilampo.org> writes:

> My example?  Follow http://www.pirilampo.org/emacs/dot-emacs.html [1].

My emacs needs eleven seconds to process one single down error while
still in the opening comments area of emacs-leuven.txt.

This is on an iMac 27-Inch, late 2009, with
- Processor:  2,66 GHz Intel Core i5
- Memory:  8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

Not the latest nor the fastest, but still, not a simple toy neither.

What behemoth are you using to edit emacs-leuven.txt?


Guido

--
Taxes, n.:
	Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get
an extension.

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Fabrice Niessen]

Hi Guido,

> Fabrice Niessen <fni-news-TA4HMoP+1wHrZ44/DZwexQ@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>
>> My example?  Follow http://www.pirilampo.org/emacs/dot-emacs.html [1].
>
> My emacs needs eleven seconds to process one single down error while
> still in the opening comments area of emacs-leuven.txt.
>
> This is on an iMac 27-Inch, late 2009, with
> - Processor:  2,66 GHz Intel Core i5
> - Memory:  8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
>
> Not the latest nor the fastest, but still, not a simple toy neither.
>
> What behemoth are you using to edit emacs-leuven.txt?

I do have a 1y old laptop (i7 @ 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM).

But, before, I had a 5y old laptop, and did not experience any trouble,
except that everything was _a bit_ slower.

Do you get a backtrace of the error?  With which Emacs (I'm using
24.3.50.1).

Please note that I associated every .txt file with Org mode:

    (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.txt\\'" . org-mode))

Best regards,
Fabrice

-- 
Fabrice Niessen
Leuven, Belgium
http://www.pirilampo.org/

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Guido Van Hoecke]

Hi Fabrice,

Oops, I write 'one single down error' but meant 'one single down key',
i.e. just hit the arrow key to descend to the next line. I don't get
errors, it is just not workable at that speed.

Using GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1187.37)
 of 2013-05-18 and Org-mode version 8.2.5h (release_8.2.5h-830-gb3a10b
@ /Users/guivho/.emacs.d/org-mode/lisp/)

I just do not understand why it is that slow...

Guido.


On 24 March 2014 15:13, Fabrice Niessen <fni-news@pirilampo.org> wrote:
> Hi Guido,
>
>> Fabrice Niessen <fni-news@pirilampo.org> writes:
>>>
>>> My example?  Follow http://www.pirilampo.org/emacs/dot-emacs.html [1].
>>
>> My emacs needs eleven seconds to process one single down error while
>> still in the opening comments area of emacs-leuven.txt.
>>
>> This is on an iMac 27-Inch, late 2009, with
>> - Processor:  2,66 GHz Intel Core i5
>> - Memory:  8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3
>>
>> Not the latest nor the fastest, but still, not a simple toy neither.
>>
>> What behemoth are you using to edit emacs-leuven.txt?
>
> I do have a 1y old laptop (i7 @ 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM).
>
> But, before, I had a 5y old laptop, and did not experience any trouble,
> except that everything was _a bit_ slower.
>
> Do you get a backtrace of the error?  With which Emacs (I'm using
> 24.3.50.1).
>
> Please note that I associated every .txt file with Org mode:
>
>     (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.txt\\'" . org-mode))
>
> Best regards,
> Fabrice
>
> --
> Fabrice Niessen
> Leuven, Belgium
> http://www.pirilampo.org/

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Fabrice Niessen]

Guido Van Hoecke wrote:
> Oops, I write 'one single down error' but meant 'one single down key',
> i.e. just hit the arrow key to descend to the next line. I don't get
> errors, it is just not workable at that speed.

OK, I get it.

> Using GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1187.37)
>  of 2013-05-18 and Org-mode version 8.2.5h (release_8.2.5h-830-gb3a10b
> @ /Users/guivho/.emacs.d/org-mode/lisp/)
>
> I just do not understand why it is that slow...

Is it because of Org mode or not?

A couple of tests to know about this:

- switch to text-mode, via M-x text-mode, or

- grab an older version of Org (there have been quite a couple of
  performance problems recently, you never know).

If still problematic: try using `elp' or `profiler' (if under Emacs 24),
and report the performance problem either to M-x report-emacs-bug, or to
the Org ML.

Best regards,
Fabrice

-- 
Fabrice Niessen
Leuven, Belgium
http://www.pirilampo.org/

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Guido Van Hoecke]

Hi Fabrice,

On 24 March 2014 21:05, Fabrice Niessen <fni-news@pirilampo.org> wrote:
> Guido Van Hoecke wrote:
>> Oops, I write 'one single down error' but meant 'one single down key',
>> i.e. just hit the arrow key to descend to the next line. I don't get
>> errors, it is just not workable at that speed.
>
> OK, I get it.
>
>> Using GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1187.37)
>>  of 2013-05-18 and Org-mode version 8.2.5h (release_8.2.5h-830-gb3a10b
>> @ /Users/guivho/.emacs.d/org-mode/lisp/)
>>
>> I just do not understand why it is that slow...
>
> Is it because of Org mode or not?
>
> A couple of tests to know about this:
>
> - switch to text-mode, via M-x text-mode, or

In text-mode cursor reaction is immediate, no delay at all.

> - grab an older version of Org (there have been quite a couple of
>   performance problems recently, you never know).

I get the same problem
(well timing is not exactly he same, but same order of magnitude)
with the 7.x version that came with my emacs.

> If still problematic: try using `elp' or `profiler' (if under Emacs 24),
> and report the performance problem either to M-x report-emacs-bug, or to
> the Org ML.

I will do that. In the mean time, I may use Alan Schmitt's approach
(thanks Alan) to recreate my emacs environment and getting rid of old
stuff hanging around in my setup files.

I have to eliminate source(s) of conflict to solve an indentation
problem reported on this list (discussed with Bastien in thread 'org
mode alignment problem')

I will keep you posted about my findings / progress.
...
So here's the first posting: Found the culprit:
(require 'linum)
(global-linum-mode)
Turning global-linum-mode off solved he problem. Response time back to
normal (y)

Found this using the profiler as you suggested.

Threefold thanks!

With kind regards,

Guido.

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Fabrice Niessen]

Guido Van Hoecke wrote:
> I will keep you posted about my findings / progress.
> ...
> So here's the first posting: Found the culprit:
> (require 'linum)
> (global-linum-mode)
> Turning global-linum-mode off solved he problem. Response time back to
> normal (y)
>
> Found this using the profiler as you suggested.

Glad it helped!

Best regards,
Fabrice

-- 
Fabrice Niessen
Leuven, Belgium
http://www.pirilampo.org/

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Stefan]

>> Turning global-linum-mode off solved he problem. Response time back to
>> normal (y)

You might like to try nlinum.el (available in GNU ELPA).  It may suffer
from the same problem, but it solves/improves several performance
problems in linum.el, so there's a chance it helps here.


        Stefan

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Guido Van Hoecke]

On 25 March 2014 03:01, Stefan <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>> Turning global-linum-mode off solved he problem. Response time back to
>>> normal (y)
>
> You might like to try nlinum.el (available in GNU ELPA).  It may suffer
> from the same problem, but it solves/improves several performance
> problems in linum.el, so there's a chance it helps here.

Thanks Stefan, I'll give it a try.

Guido

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Brady Trainor]

On 03/24/2014 03:10 AM, Fabrice Niessen wrote:

> That big file (in my case) can be:
>
> - Tangled ::
>       Extract the source code blocks and generate *real working code*
>       files for further compilation or execution, eventually outside of
>       Emacs.
>

> Best regards,
> Fabrice

I wrote about this in the org-mode newsgroup, my first tangle, at 
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-04/msg00698.html

It comes down to the following block for me. This init file is loaded 
first, and in turn extracts and loads the embedded code from the .org 
file (tangle).

  ____________
/

;;;; make sure org has been installed in an "emacs -q"

(require 'package)
(package-initialize)
(require 'org)

;; declare org indentation before we might manually open org to tangle
(setq org-startup-indented t)
(setq org-hide-block-startup t)
;; declare source indentation before we might manually open org to tangle
(setq org-src-fontify-natively t)
(setq org-edit-src-content-indentation 0)

;; default I/O in windows is undecided-dos/unix for de/encoding respectively
(prefer-coding-system 'utf-8-unix)

;; load org initialization files
(require 'ob-tangle)
(org-babel-load-file "/e/emacs-config/dot-emacs-test.org")

\____________


Brady

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Rusi]

On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:07:26 AM UTC+5:30, Tom Roche wrote:
> I've been using emacs for ~20 years, during which I have

> 1. accumulated a functional but aesthetically- and maintenance-challenged
> collection of {init.el, files it calls}
> 2. regularly bemoaned the lack of emacs package management

> The latter problem has been solved (non-uniquely :-) for awhile now,
> and I'm setting up a new box, so I really should port my emacs
> configuration to the new millenium. I'm wondering, would anyone care
> to recommend especially worthy docs for this process (guides,
> howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to accommodate snippets of elisp
> (gists?)


Im also an old geezer looking to changing to the new package system
The first thing I see is that there are a lot of package repos:

elpa (2 of them), melpa, marmalade...

Which/how to choose??

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Neal Becker]

Rusi wrote:

> On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:07:26 AM UTC+5:30, Tom Roche wrote:
>> I've been using emacs for ~20 years, during which I have
> 
>> 1. accumulated a functional but aesthetically- and maintenance-challenged
>> collection of {init.el, files it calls}
>> 2. regularly bemoaned the lack of emacs package management
> 
>> The latter problem has been solved (non-uniquely :-) for awhile now,
>> and I'm setting up a new box, so I really should port my emacs
>> configuration to the new millenium. I'm wondering, would anyone care
>> to recommend especially worthy docs for this process (guides,
>> howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to accommodate snippets of elisp
>> (gists?)
> 
> 
> Im also an old geezer looking to changing to the new package system
> The first thing I see is that there are a lot of package repos:
> 
> elpa (2 of them), melpa, marmalade...
> 
> Which/how to choose??

I use:
(require 'felineherd)

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[jpkotta]

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:42:19 PM UTC-5, Rusi wrote:
> On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:07:26 AM UTC+5:30, Tom Roche wrote:
> 
> > I've been using emacs for ~20 years, during which I have
> 
> 
> 
> > 1. accumulated a functional but aesthetically- and maintenance-challenged
> 
> > collection of {init.el, files it calls}
> 
> > 2. regularly bemoaned the lack of emacs package management
> 
> 
> 
> > The latter problem has been solved (non-uniquely :-) for awhile now,
> 
> > and I'm setting up a new box, so I really should port my emacs
> 
> > configuration to the new millenium. I'm wondering, would anyone care
> 
> > to recommend especially worthy docs for this process (guides,
> 
> > howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to accommodate snippets of elisp
> 
> > (gists?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im also an old geezer looking to changing to the new package system
> 
> The first thing I see is that there are a lot of package repos:
> 
> 
> 
> elpa (2 of them), melpa, marmalade...
> 
> 
> 
> Which/how to choose??

I have an answer on SO about this:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14836958/updating-packages-in-emacs/14838150#14838150

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Brady Trainor]

On 03/25/2014 08:42 PM, Rusi wrote:
> On Monday, March 24, 2014 5:07:26 AM UTC+5:30, Tom Roche wrote:

>
> elpa (2 of them), melpa, marmalade...
>
> Which/how to choose??
>

I saw mention to avoid marmalade as it seemed to be more rogue, so I got 
by with just melpa and elpa for a while. But then when I needed some not 
very obscure programs, I resorted to adding marmalade (it might have 
been auctex or cdlatex, and another that I can't recall).


Brady

porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Barry OReilly]

https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package might be useful.

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Zhen Sun]

Barry OReilly <gundaetiapo@gmail.com> writes:

> https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package might be useful.

+1. This is what I'm using and I find it very flexible.

Zhen

porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Tom Roche]

I've been using emacs for ~20 years, during which I have

1. accumulated a functional but aesthetically- and maintenance-challenged collection of {init.el, files it calls}
2. regularly bemoaned the lack of emacs package management

The latter problem has been solved (non-uniquely :-) for awhile now, and I'm setting up a new box, so I really should port my emacs configuration to the new millenium. I'm wondering, would anyone care to recommend especially worthy docs for this process (guides, howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to accommodate snippets of elisp (gists?)

TIA, Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com>

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2014-03-23, o godz. 19:37:26
Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com> napisał(a):

> [...] port my emacs
> configuration to the new millenium. [...]

One correction: you should rather port your Emacs configuration "to the
new century".  It is Debian release cycle, not Emacs conf, for which
you need the other unit. ;)

Back to topic: I don't use it personally (yet?), but Org's Babel sounds
like a good idea.

Hth,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com> writes:

> I'm wondering, would anyone care to recommend especially worthy docs
> for this process (guides, howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to
> accommodate snippets of elisp (gists?)

If you think of your init file more as '(comment)text with code',
Org-Babel and the associated starter-kit
(http://eschulte.github.io/emacs-starter-kit/) are definitely worth a
try. 

OTOH, if you think of your init file more as 'code with (comment)text',
then using outshine.el might be more comfortable
(http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-outside-org.html). 

Here is how I currently structure my init.el with outshine headlines
(that allow for much of Org-mode's navigation, visibility cycling and
structure editing functionality):

,-----------------------------------------------------
| 98 matches for "^;; \*\*?\*?\*? " in buffer: init.el
|       1:;; * init.el --- Emacs Init File (TJ)
|       5:;; * Begin Startup
|      16:;; * General Configurations
|      20:;; ** Coding System
|      30:;; ** Screen Colors
|      50:;; ** Global Settings
|      80:;; ** Global Keys
|      91:;; ** Define Aliases
|     114:;; ** Load Path
|     116:;; *** Load-Path Enhancement
|     150:;; *** Library Search
|     201:;; ** Package Manager
|     207:;; * Helper functions
|     211:;; ** Improved Require
|     236:;; ** Idle Require
|     262:;; ** Fast Temporary Buffers
|     272:;; ** Elisp Symbols
|     331:;; ** Files and Directories
|     357:;; ** Window Split
|     408:;; ** Scratch Buffer
|     419:;; ** Truncate Lines
|     431:;; ** Recentf with Ido
|     453:;; * Major Modes
|     457:;; ** Org
|     461:;; *** General
|     463:;; **** Configuration
|     508:;; **** Functions
|     545:;; *** Hyperlinks
|     547:;; **** Configuration 
|     556:;; *** Properties and Columns
|     558:;; **** Configuration 
|     568:;; *** Exporting
|     570:;; **** Configuration 
|     577:;; *** Timestamps
|     579:;; **** Configuration 
|     584:;; **** Functions
|     607:;; *** Tags
|     609:;; **** Configuration 
|     639:;; *** Clocking
|     641:;; **** Configuration 
|     703:;; **** Functions
|     833:;; *** Capturing
|     835:;; **** Configuration
|     861:;; *** Projects
|     863:;; **** Functions
|    1062:;; *** Archiving
|    1064:;; **** Configuration 
|    1069:;; **** Functions
|    1109:;; *** Agenda
|    1111:;; **** Configuration 
|    1352:;; **** Functions
|    1537:;; *** Refile
|    1539:;; **** Configuration 
|    1577:;; **** Functions
|    1585:;; *** Org-Babel
|    1587:;; **** Configuration
|    1651:;; **** Functions
|    1658:;; *** Skeletons
|    1660:;; **** Abbreviations
|    1676:;; **** Definitions
|    1721:;; *** Keybindings
|    1729:;; ** LaTeX
|    1733:;; *** Configuration
|    1821:;; *** Functions
|    1823:;; ** Calendar 
|    1831:;; ** PicoLisp
|    1865:;; ** Slime
|    1912:;; ** Scala
|    1919:;; ** Dired
|    1964:;; ** IRC
|    1980:;; ** Message
|    1986:;; ** Magit
|    1993:;; ** W3M
|    1997:;; *** Configurations
|    2090:;; *** Functions
|    2097:;; ** Ediff
|    2151:;; ** Occur
|    2153:;; *** Configurations
|    2165:;; *** Functions
|    2193:;; * Minor Modes
|    2197:;; ** Outline
|    2221:;; ** Ido
|    2259:;; ** Smex
|    2278:;; ** S
|    2284:;; ** Undo Tree Mode
|    2294:;; ** Rebox2
|    2307:;; ** Rainbow Delimiters
|    2314:;; ** Auto Pair
|    2320:;; ** Eldoc
|    2328:;; ** Logito
|    2335:;; ** Openwith
|    2352:;; ** Workgroups
|    2362:;; ** Switch Windows
|    2368:;; ** Window Numbering
|    2375:;; ** Winner Mode
|    2386:;; ** Nuke'n Eval 
|    2398:;; * End Startup
|    2412:;; * Custom Set Variables/Fonts
`-----------------------------------------------------

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: porting crufty old init.el to package management

[Alan Schmitt]

Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:

> Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com> writes:
>
>> I'm wondering, would anyone care to recommend especially worthy docs
>> for this process (guides, howto's, tutorials)? esp how best to
>> accommodate snippets of elisp (gists?)
>
> If you think of your init file more as '(comment)text with code',
> Org-Babel and the associated starter-kit
> (http://eschulte.github.io/emacs-starter-kit/) are definitely worth a
> try. 

This is the approach I'm following. To get you started, here is my
configuration loading config file (init.el). It basically loads
a current version of org, then tangles the "myconfig.org" file to create
the configuration

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
;; Turn off mouse interface early in startup to avoid momentary display
(if (fboundp 'tool-bar-mode) (tool-bar-mode -1))
(if (fboundp 'scroll-bar-mode) (scroll-bar-mode -1))

;; remember this directory
(setq emacsd-dir
      (file-name-directory (or load-file-name (buffer-file-name))))

;; org-setup
(add-to-list 'load-path (concat emacsd-dir "org/emacs/site-lisp/org"))
(require 'org)

;; Then tangle and load the file
(org-babel-load-file (expand-file-name "myconfig.org" emacsd-dir))
#+end_src

Here is a small snippet of the org file, to show you what it looks like:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
* Setting up
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(add-to-list 'load-path emacsd-dir)
(setq autoload-file (concat emacsd-dir "loaddefs.el"))
(setq package-user-dir (concat emacsd-dir "elpa"))
(setq custom-file (concat emacsd-dir "custom.el"))
#+END_SRC

** System name
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(if (eq system-type 'darwin)
    (setq system-name (car (split-string system-name "\\."))))
#+END_SRC

** Internationalization
Global environment
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
  (setenv "LANG" "en_US.UTF-8")
#+END_SRC

To make sure dates are in English
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(setq system-time-locale "C")
#+END_SRC

* Hush
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
  ;; Don't use messages that you don't read
  (setq initial-scratch-message "")
  (setq inhibit-startup-message t)
#+END_SRC

I'm also hiding the startup echo area message using this:
(customize-option 'inhibit-startup-echo-area-message)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Hope this helps,

Alan