From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Mathias Dahl" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:37:05 +0100 Message-ID: <7dbe73ed0803250037q23ab2e2bge989e6abea330911@mail.gmail.com> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324115510.GA1563@muc.de> <874pavg45t.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <004d01c88e01$0f93b8f0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206430651 17478 80.91.229.12 (25 Mar 2008 07:37:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:37:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "paul r" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 25 08:38:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Je3jI-0001Yc-O1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:37:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Je3ih-0004Vi-Da for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Je3ib-0004Tx-2l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Je3iY-0004Ra-DG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Je3iY-0004RL-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Je3iX-0008GZ-IP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.181]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Je3iW-0001rO-L7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so4084635wah.10 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:37:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=jCEDy9Uwr6YiCAqDQ9mRr6/Igq1xjRFcMcjWF/KB+WM=; b=usRIsNfYinKLaPHXZE/8kBb7dia8Un6biIgBX6YM+qYY9ElPBcHfHNbMHzU4hMfN00M8pOGsjjKcqj9VZrjxgEp0bSssBsfE0OZ8erpZBcm/3zX1psY6+cXdKYRkbqvYMIMYI2UX7LdW5pGAVLhCDE9tulNYh9FD9I/oIvGqglc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AbP/6Q4hkpPza8biQ07SvhrDD3NcSqlLsoHgfWnd+RRljIM8E2qAaSy/brqhCVt954H/f67Ekf9cu3moNyTnCFCmZPv7f2DlS6ld53Lt+t8mgmyfZ4pWGKn0BeAAoSNZ7Ued4PWX3XyDUsyO7AGnVIXdQmp/Lg8ScvCdvXSS5O4= Original-Received: by 10.114.175.16 with SMTP id x16mr13565780wae.12.1206430625226; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.114.146.9 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93395 Archived-At: > To me, any "oldie" irritated by a change in default settings can go in > its .emacs and revert to previous behaviour in a matter of seconds. > I'm again under the impression that this idea provides convenience to > experienced users that do not really need it. Newbies need default > settings that encourage them to carry on, this is the real challenge I > think. I agree completely with this, and I consider myself quite "young" (started using Emacs 1997) compared to a lot of the people on this list. Now that t-m-m is set as default I don't think I will change it however, I will give it a try, it isn't like it is the end of the world, I know I can use C-g to deactivate the region, for example. Give the new users good defaults and let us "oldies" twiddle away. Of course, there will always be discussions about what is a good default, and maybe then we get into the problem with some oldies having such strong opinions about things and think they know what is best for a beginner. These things are not easy.